84363

[Eirene]

http://theboard.byu.edu/questions/84363/

So many assumptions about women's roles in this question...I just wanted to say (maybe for the benefit of the asker if she ever reads this) that I became much happier and less angsty when I stopped feeling like my obligations towards society, the Church, or my family were any different from my husband's.

I felt angsty for a long time when we got married and I didn't want to change my name (because, well, I liked my given name better). Eventually I was like, "My husband feels 0 guilt over not changing his last name to match mine. So if he doesn't feel bad I'm not going to feel bad or second-guess myself either." And now it's not even something I think about anymore.

Same thing for kids. I used to stress out over when I should have a baby, and trying to time it for a year when I could take some time off, or wondering if I should modify my career goals or take a career break to have kids...then I realized my husband doesn't worry about that stuff. He does what he likes with his career and would not seriously consider taking more than a few weeks or months off for a baby. If he doesn't feel bad about enjoying his work and finding it meaningful and not wanting to take a break from it to play with a baby, then why should I feel bad about feeling the same way?

I know there are literally hundreds of GA quotes in support of different familial and societal obligations for men and women, but I just wanted to say that my life has had more happiness and peace since I started ignoring that stuff.

[Rainbow_connection]

It goes both ways. My husband stayed in a less-than-perfect job that wasn't doing much for his career because it was laid back and allowed him to spend a lot of time with our daughter for her first year. I think just assuming that men don't care about spending time with their babies or that it doesn't take a toll on them to work 60-hour weeks is harmful and false.

[bobtheenchantedone]

Arg I feel so many of the feels of this woman, in both empathy and sympathy. A few thoughts I have:

From what I've read, the main reason for the wage gap is not women being paid less for the same work because they're women. It's women being paid less because they do things like go into less demanding fields, put school on hold for children and then try to enter the workforce without a degree, and even when they have a degree when they reenter the workforce they're missing out on years of experience and knowledge because they took a break. My mother, who has a degree while my father does not, took a job cleaning the library when necessity forced her to work because it would take too much time and effort to get her knowledge and certification up to date.

Some careers may have shelf lives. I'm actually in a really good position as an "older" singer; my voice has matured a lot more than the 19-year-olds I'm surrounded by and as such has a lot of potential that the singers I'm competing with may not access for years to come. However, I may have also missed my chance at being a record high soprano by getting into singing late; my voice dropped several notes this past summer while my highest notes are getting harder and harder to reach.

This doesn't really apply to the question asker's situation, but I think it's valid considering the responses: it frustrates me so much that, even when we are having this discussion, we're not even touching on the base assumption, that families only exist with a FEMALE parent who stays at home. There's no discussion of who has the better career options, who wants to work outside the home, the possibilities of daycare, looking into work-from-home or telecommuting jobs; no, the only thing that works is women staying home all day not working and putting whatever plans and dreams on hold for that while the men bring home the bacon. It's awful on both sides, with women forced to figure out what they'd rather sacrifice and men having the pressure of choosing a good career and being downgraded to "babysitting" their own children when they have free time.

[Katya]

I know there are literally hundreds of GA quotes in support of different familial and societal obligations for men and women, but I just wanted to say that my life has had more happiness and peace since I started ignoring that stuff.

Preach.

Also, if you're on Twitter, you should be following @manwhohasitall: https://twitter.com/manwhohasitall It's a hilarious sendup of the messages we give to working women vs. working men. (E.g., "WORKING DAD? Delegate chores! Get your wife to set the table & ask the kids to put their dirty clothes into the laundry basket. Ask NICELY.")

[Zedability]

Sweden has a thing where couples get a certain amount of leave that can be split by the mother and the father, and the couple gets like $1500 if they split the time evenly. I think that's awesome. I think there's a lot of women who don't want to take huge amounts of time off AND a lot of dads who would love to take more time off...normalizing paid leave for both genders would do a lot to take some of the pressure off, I think.

[Whistler]

I keep telling myself that if I wanted to, I could get a job and put my daughter into childcare, but some fundamental part of me refuses to believe it's possible, or stays convinced that it would only make me more stressed.

[NovemberEast]

I too have become frustrated by the "have it all" idea but for completely non-church related reasons. It's not just a mormon woman issue so I just omit that from my thinking process. Plus, I think we mormons freak out too much about how and when to family. Yes, I used it as a verb. And I find this silly because there are plenty of good ways to family and plenty of General Authority quotes to back this up like others have mentioned.

Anyways...

The reason I get so tired of the "have it all" idea is because I probably have an unrealistic idea of it:

-high achievement in my current career field
-being an "involved" mom
-happy marriage
-existent sex life
-not having all my meals come from the prepared food section or the freezer aisle
-getting enough exercise
-doing a good job at my callings
-having a clean house, not perfect, just not bearing resemblance to an alleyway in Calcutta...no disrespect to Calcutta...
-not being tired every day of the week
-keeping my sanity more often than not

Yes, it's very ideal of me and people could fault me at that. But that is what a personal "ideal" is.

Let's be real, I have a hard enough time balancing most of those things without adding motherhood to the mix. Now, of course if both my husband and I have hypothetical great future careers, then I could probably outsource maybe two things on my list and pay someone to take care of our kids after school before we get home. But it will all still take a lot of energy that I may not have. Some people might say "well that's just life." That is true. Life is hard, but I can still choose or not choose some of the components of my life that make me crazy.

I try to remember that very rarely does everything happen all at once. There are times and seasons for things. Who knows, I might have a boss that loves me so much that they let me work from home or do some things part time until my kids are old enough for me personally to not feel as sad about leaving them during the day. Or, I might decide to tell my career to shove it and want to stay at home. who knows?! not me! It's been so freeing for me to adopt that attitude after all my useless fretting.

Moral of the boring non-story is that I stopped worrying about it so much because I really have no clue what's going to happen. It's too easy to worry yourself into a hole. I just have to keep going, know my priorities, know my limits, know my goals, and take it one day/month/year at a time.

Easier said than done, but I'm going for it and it feels so good.

[Portia]

I don't want a high-pressure corporate career, OR kids, and this is the best damn advice I've heard.

None of my boyfriends have made major career changes because of me. None have expressed the least self-doubt over their marital status. (Some have about finding a partner, but don't see bachelorhood as stigmatizing the way I do singlehood.) NOT ONE has the least concern about what life without a kid would be like.

I think that's what spoke to me so much about Kate Bolick's book. It was a radical experiment in the the female Bachelor Life.

[Eirene]

It goes both ways. My husband stayed in a less-than-perfect job that wasn't doing much for his career because it was laid back and allowed him to spend a lot of time with our daughter for her first year. I think just assuming that men don't care about spending time with their babies or that it doesn't take a toll on them to work 60-hour weeks is harmful and false.

Of course. When two people establish a household or family together, they are equally responsible for its upkeep, financially and otherwise. However they agree to split their time and talents is up to them, but traditional gender roles really have no business getting in the way.

[Eirene]

Also, if you're on Twitter, you should be following @manwhohasitall: https://twitter.com/manwhohasitall It's a hilarious sendup of the messages we give to working women vs. working men. (E.g., "WORKING DAD? Delegate chores! Get your wife to set the table & ask the kids to put their dirty clothes into the laundry basket. Ask NICELY.")[/quote]

Oh my gosh, I love it. "Male dad with children? Did you know that fathers have qualities and talents that make them particularly well-suited to admin roles?"