Kissing...with t o n g u e

[Zedability]

http://theboard.byu.edu/questions/89073 ... sion_89073

So I know why people say French kissing simulates sex, but like...if the tongue is supposed to be the penis, the analogy falls apart pretty quickly because girls have tongues too. Unless they've only French kissed where the guy just shoves his tongue in the girl's mouth without her really getting in on the tongue action...and while that would be an issue for multiple reasons, I can't imagine it would be very arousing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[TheBlackSheep]

Okay so there isn't a lot on this earth that makes me actually mad, but this does, and there aren't a lot of people on this earth that I actually hate, but my freshman year bishop is one. I wish I had had the experience that Alta describes, but my freshman year bishop announced that he and his counselors had decided that anyone who had french kissed needed to go in and talk to the bishop. They had drawn that line, they said, after a particularly graphic meeting featuring lots of quotes from President Kimball. It turns out that most of the young women in my ward blew him off, and I wish I had, but being the extremely obedient person who really wanted to try her best that I was, I went. And the entire experience made me feel small and evil and disgusting and broken. All I had ever done was kiss my highschool boyfriend, a seven-foot tall saint of a nonmember, with tongue, hands at ten and two. I left that meeting feeling like I had done something next door to murdering someone and like everyone could smell it on me.

This is an experience that Unlucky Stuntman and I initially bonded over once we'd met, because we discovered that we had had the same bishop a year apart who had used the same language. He said that french kissing "was an act in similitude of oral sex," and he'd drawn the same line the previous year when Unlucky Stuntman was in his ward. She had had the same experience as me.

Anyway. Maybe it was a rogue bishop and maybe it wasn't, but that dude really messed me up. This idea really messed me up, because french kissing that sweet boy in high school never felt wrong, and it certainly never amounted to oral sex for me, and we did it a LOT. Putting it that way when I was a vulnerable kid made me feel gross and dirty which helped me not report a sexual assault the next year and not make great choices all the the time when I did become sexually active. It's just a damaging idea for a whole bunch of young people who are already trying to do their best with very few of the outlets that other people their age have.

Plus, I'm with Zed, the analogy is ridiculous. French kissing is fun because french kissing is fun, not because it's anything like oral sex.

[yayfulness]

I understand and respect people who make the personal decision not to kiss with tongue before marriage.

That said, I also suspect that most people who really believe "kissing is simulated sex" have never actually had sex.

[Marduk]

That said, I also suspect that most people who really believe "kissing is simulated sex" have never actually had sex.

My first thought too.

Also, I really hate the conception of people avoiding things because of "what it might lead to." We're talking about adults, here, who are perfectly capable of deciding what they want to do, and what they don't want to do. The idea that someone might say "I was so aroused I just couldn't stop" as though being aroused somehow is like being inebriated or otherwise having reduced capacity is not only nonsense, it is dangerous. That's the kind of thinking that leads to people committing -- and getting away with -- what is very clearly sexual assault.

But this conversation topic might be a bit dangerous, too, because it isn't long before we start realizing that teaching what consent looks like is way more important than teaching people what various kinds of physical affection simulate.

[Portia]

+1 to everything upthread.

According to recent research, "deep kissing" is one of the surest ways to get a woman to orgasm. I (naively?) thought that the French kiss ban might be related to that. Just me?

Here's that original article.

[Portia]

Okay so there isn't a lot on this earth that makes me actually mad, but this does, and there aren't a lot of people on this earth that I actually hate, but my freshman year bishop is one. I wish I had had the experience that Alta describes, but my freshman year bishop announced that he and his counselors had decided that anyone who had french kissed needed to go in and talk to the bishop. They had drawn that line, they said, after a particularly graphic meeting featuring lots of quotes from President Kimball. It turns out that most of the young women in my ward blew him off, and I wish I had, but being the extremely obedient person who really wanted to try her best that I was, I went. And the entire experience made me feel small and evil and disgusting and broken. All I had ever done was kiss my highschool boyfriend, a seven-foot tall saint of a nonmember, with tongue, hands at ten and two. I left that meeting feeling like I had done something next door to murdering someone and like everyone could smell it on me.

This is an experience that Unlucky Stuntman and I initially bonded over once we'd met, because we discovered that we had had the same bishop a year apart who had used the same language. He said that french kissing "was an act in similitude of oral sex," and he'd drawn the same line the previous year when Unlucky Stuntman was in his ward. She had had the same experience as me.

Anyway. Maybe it was a rogue bishop and maybe it wasn't, but that dude really messed me up. This idea really messed me up, because french kissing that sweet boy in high school never felt wrong, and it certainly never amounted to oral sex for me, and we did it a LOT. Putting it that way when I was a vulnerable kid made me feel gross and dirty which helped me not report a sexual assault the next year and not make great choices all the the time when I did become sexually active. It's just a damaging idea for a whole bunch of young people who are already trying to do their best with very few of the outlets that other people their age have.

Plus, I'm with Zed, the analogy is ridiculous. French kissing is fun because french kissing is fun, not because it's anything like oral sex.

This is horrible. I'm so sorry. I still haven't gotten over the obvious instances of clerical abuse (although I was firmly in the "girls who blew these guys off, thanks!" camp, personally).

My first boyfriend definitely did what Zed described - sticking it down my throat with no preamble or warning. Blamed porn, haha. I'm with Marduk - consent, guys? Rather than making me feel like the temptress slattern at all of 18?