TheBlackSheep wrote:I don't really care about Vorpal apologizing to me. I'm just not going to let him off the hook when he gets all woe-is-me, is racist/homophobic/transphobic/sexist/whatever, or is attacking people. I'm using conversing with him as practice for dealing with similar people in my life. As long as he keeps trying to claim he's the one who has really been wronged all these years, I'm going to keep poking him, at least for now.
Vorpal, Stunt and I have decided to do just what you want us to: focus on you. We're compiling some data and we'll be back.
Great! I’m looking forward to looking at what data you have compiled.
But let’s be clear about something. What I’ve asked for is specific examples of what I have said that indicates that I have mistreated other people in this forum. The focus is not on me. I’m just the messager. It is the words that I have said, not who I am, right? If the same words had been spoken by you or anyone else then it would still be mistreatment of other people. Isn’t that right?
I think the focus should be on the people who feel that I have mistreated them or others. How did they feel? Why did they feel that way? After all, over the years the great majority of the people in this forum have told me that I have never mistreated them or anyone else. The question is, why do the few who think so feel the way they do?
vorpal blade wrote:What changed? I apologize if it is something I inadvertently said that hurt your feelings. What was it?
Lol, nothing changed. I was a very well-trained co-dependent Mormon woman who felt it was my job to make everyone around me feel better even at the cost of my own experiences and feelings, hence the above message.
vorpal blade wrote:Great! I’m looking forward to looking at what data you have compiled.
Don't hold your breath Vorpal, we don't actually care enough to spend that much time hand-holding you through all of the ways in which you're a narcissist. You've demonstrated time and time again that you won't empathize with anyone else here, except the other white Mormon dudes like you. It's been a trip watching a grown-ass man spend the last decade condescending to a group of people he met when they were in college.
I'll be here to call you out on your bullshit when I get bored.
I think I do need to be more empathetic, especially in communicating it. I hadn’t noticed a gender bias in my empathy, I’ll have to look into that. By the way, I don’t know whether you are male or female, and it makes no difference to me.
I do feel empathy for you in your difficulty learning to navigate waters outside of the church you grew up in. I can see how that would be hard. We are always sad to see people go, but if you must leave we want you to leave taking the good that you learned with you. I think it is a good thing to try to make everyone around you feel better, even if it comes at some cost to you. We all should control what we say and refrain from saying whatever we feel at the moment of anger. That’s something that good people everywhere are taught and believe in.
Of course, the church does NOT teach that we should merely accept whatever verbal punishment we are given. It does NOT teach that we should say “I never felt that you were malicious with anything that you wrote,” if we don’t mean it. Matthew 18:15 says “Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.” We are suppose to be frank and honest to the person who has offended us, not lie about it if he asks us if he has offended us.
See also D&C 42:88 “And if thy brother or sister offend thee, thou shalt take him or her between him or her and thee alone; and if he or she confess thou shalt be reconciled.”
I can understand your reluctance to point out where I might have mistreated people. I can see that it might lead to a really long discussion which isn’t satisfactory to anyone. But I’m disappointed that I don’t have the opportunity to clear my good name or to apologize and change where needed. I also wanted the opportunity to point out that frequently people suppose someone has mistreated another, but when they know more of the facts they gain a different perspective.
For example, you must have had good reasons for what appears to me to be abominable behavior towards Yayfulness. I realize that he apologized to you, but why didn’t you apologize to him? You swore at him, which is verbal abuse, akin to punching him in the stomach. And you falsely accused him of evil intentions, “what is it with you board people pretending like I don't exist and you don't actually know me?” And all this because you were one of the people whose names were not put on a list of dubious distinction. Your hurtful accusation was later proven to be groundless, yet you never apologized for your mistake.
I’ve never heard a good justification for swearing at someone, but here is your chance to clear your good name. What were your good reasons for what appears to me to be mistreating Yayfulness?
I live in a city that is 93% non-white. With very few exceptions everyone in our church here is black. I see so few white people that I now feel uncomfortable around white people I don’t know.
Last Monday we attended the repass after the funeral of Sister Boon’s youngest daughter. It was a happy affair with plenty of food, balloons, and family and a few friends. Sister Boon warmly welcomed my wife and I. She told all her family that her brothers and sisters in the church were her second family. We settled in and enjoyed some food. We met a daughter of Sister Boon that we had not met before. This daughter at first gave us a hard time about what she had heard was negative in the Book of Mormon regarding Black people.
The daughter was very extroverted and got Sister Boon to sing a few traditional spirituals with everyone joining in. The daughter then led the group in many other spirituals, most of which my wife joined in with enthusiasm. I didn’t know the songs that well, but my wife knew most of them and sang with gusto. This impressed the Boon family, especially the daughter. As we were leaving the daughter again talked to us, this time with more respect. She expressed a kinship with my wife. Then she looked me in the eye and said, with a straight face, “Now this man, I can tell, is a BROTHER.” I was sure she was testing me.
With an equally deadpan face I said, “Yes. In fact, my mother was a Black.” She was greatly surprised and didn’t know what to say. She kept looking at me to see how I was going to explain that statement. My wife stepped in with, “His mother’s maiden name is Black.”
She laughed heartily at that, and insisted on giving me a high five. At that point my wife explained more about the Book of Mormon and what it is and what it represents. We parted with her promising to read the Book of Mormon and find out for herself. I love the people here.
I just thought I would add an observation. Almost all of the members of my branch are Black. Most of them are foreign born, coming from Africa and the Caribbean (especially Haiti). Some of the foreign born members have actually lived in the United States for many years. I would say that the members who have the most trouble accepting the Book of Mormon references to black skin as a sign of a curse are the native born Americans (whether Black or White), and only some of them.
