Homebirth

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pillowy
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Homebirth

Post by pillowy »

Let's propose a hypothetical situation. Say that you were sending your child to school one day, and you somehow learned that there was going to be a crazy shooter on campus, and if you sent your child to school that day they had a 1/1000 chance of dying. Would you send them to school? Hell no. Why not? Your child will almost certainly be one of the 999 who are okay (or just wounded). Well, when you're talking about your child's life, a 1/1000 chance of dying is obviously one you wouldn't purposely choose. You wouldn't take the chance that they would be the 1/1000.

If you are a low risk woman and you choose to give birth at home, your baby has more than a 1/1000 chance of dying. You are sending them to school where they have 1/1000 chance of not coming home that day.

Let's compare those to the hospital rates of neonatal death. If you look at the recently published study by Weill Cornell Medical Center, their numbers show that the neonatal mortality rate for low risk women who give birth in a hospital is 0.31/1000. Your baby has a 1/3226 chance of dying.

Cornell found that the neonatal mortality rate for low risk white women who give birth at home is 1.32/1000. Your baby has a 1/756 chance of dying at home. That risk of death is more than four times higher than at the hospital.

If you had to send your daughter to school, would you send her to the school where her chance of dying was 1/3000, or 1/700?

And if you sent her to the school where her chance of dying was 1/700, and she came home alive, was it because the school was equally as safe as the other? No. It's because you were lucky.

Homebirth is not, and can never be, as safe as birth in a hospital. There isn't nearly the same equipment and there aren't the same teams of highly educated, highly trained, highly experienced people watching over you. You get very basic equipment and one (possibly two) undereducated, under experienced midwives who are "experts in normal birth" (a.k.a., they cannot properly deal with emergencies and may not even recognize that there is one.) When you choose homebirth, you are taking the chance that an unpredictable, unavoidable emergency will happen to you or your baby (prolapsed cord, placental abruption, shoulder dystocia, amniotic fluid embolism, severe post partum hemorrhage) - and you will not be in the place where there is the equipment and people who could save your lives.

How long can you hold your breath? Because living "five minutes away from the hospital" means that if you have a placental abruption during labor, your baby will be holding their breath as long as it takes to recognize that it's happened, call an ambulance, wait for the ambulance to arrive, load up into the ambulance, drive to the hospital, get to the OR, get anestethized, and for the doctor to cut your baby out. Could you hold your breath through all that? Your baby won't be getting oxygen for that entire period. And if they don't die (which they almost certainly will), they will suffer serious brain damage.

And now that I brought it up, let's do talk about brain function. Babies' brain function is preserved in labor if they get enough oxygen during labor and delivery. One of the best ways of detecting if a baby is getting enough oxygen is electronic fetal monitoring. It shows a constant tracing of their heart rate and can detect things such as decreased variability (a sign of oxygen deprivation) and subtle late decelerations (a sign of oxygen deprivation). By just listening to the heart rate with a doppler (what a midwife will use at a homebirth), you cannot detect these things. So a baby can have a heart rate in the normal range the entire period of labor, and still drop mostly dead (and almost certainly brain damaged) into the midwife's hands. That wouldn't happen in a hospital, because their distress would have been picked up on the monitors and interventions would have been performed to save them. Home birth advocates often complain about interventions in the hospital, seemingly without realizinog that these same interventions save lives and brain function. When you decrease interventions, you increase brain damage. When you decrease interventions, you increase deaths.

This study showed that home birth increased the risk of a 5 minute Apgar score of 0 by nearly 1000%. (Yes, a thousand percent.) An Apgar score of 0 means that there are no signs of life - the baby is completely blue or gray, has no pulse, is not breathing, is not moving, and does not respond to stimulation. If you deliver with an OB in a hospital, the chance of an Apgar score of 0 at five minutes only 1/6250. If you deliver with a midwife (CNMs included) at home, the chance is 1/613. Ten times higher. Tell me, do you want there to be a 1/600 chance that your child will be grey, not breathing, and not moving five whole minutes after they were born? Well, if you choose a homebirth, that's the number you're choosing.

For the babies who are able to be revived at this point (and it's not many), what do you think their brain function is? After not having had oxygen for at least five minutes OUT of the womb, and certainly for a much longer period before being delivered? They are, almost without question, going to have serious brain damage.

And those are just the babies who almost certainly have serious brain damage - what about all the others with mild or moderate brain damage from undetected oxygen deprivation at homebirth?

Why would you choose your care provider from a group of women who believe that shoving garlic in your vagina can cure GBS? Or that putting a hat on a newborn can cause maternal postpartum hemorrhage? Or that eating stevia (yes, stevia, the sugar substitute) can increase amniotic fluid? Or that if something goes wrong and the baby dies, and the mother questions the midwife's actions, it is always, always, always the mother's fault?

It makes sense to me that homebirth advocates blame the mother when a baby dies. If they blame the mother, if they say she did something wrong, then they are assuring themselves that the same thing will not happen to them. Because they will not make the same mistake that she did. But that is a lie. The only "mistake" most of these women make is trusting that their midwife is actually the competent care provider that she says she is, and not just some birth junkie who knows so little that she doesn't realize how much she doesn't know.

Almost all lay midwifes (and tons of doulas) seem to suffer from Dunning-Krueger effect - "the inability of the unskilled to recognize their ineptitude." They've read 15 or 20 books on birth, done months of research on google (months, people, months!), and been present at 100 births, and they think they know as much as an OB who went through at least 8 years of medical school and has presided over many hundreds, if not thousands of births. In 2012, MANA "strengthened" the requirement for the CPM credential to require a high school diploma. Strengthened. Boy, doesn't that give you confidence in your care provider? That idiot in your history class who BARELY passed high school might have more education than the person you've entrusted your baby's life to.

Just one problem with non-nurse midwives' education is that training in an apprenticeship under another CPM is where they get a great deal of their "knowledge" in how to deliver babies. So if the trainer midwife has a gap in her knowledge, she passes that on to her student. Barb from Navelgazing Midwife (who, as the name says, used to be a midwife herself), explained it like this:
"Each non-CNM midwife has what I call “black holes” in their education and skills training. When they teach, they also teach the black hole… or rather, they leave out the knowledge of the black hole, thereby passing on the black hole from generation to generation of apprentices/midwives. Unless a student/apprentice has another midwife that accidently [sic] fills in the black hole, she can go her entire life not knowing about something. For example, I just reported on a study that showed “Heat Wave May Make Womb a Dangerous Place,” that heat was positively associated with congenital cataracts. When I reported on it, I noted that I’d not known babies could have congenital cataracts. Another midwife was surprised (understatement) that I didn’t test for them, looking in the newborn’s eyes with a flashlight to look for the “red reflex” (you can bet I know about it now!). I’ve had at least ten midwives teaching me how to do newborn exams and I can’t remember even one of them telling me about the red reflex. Clearly, this was a black hole in my education… and one I passed on to my apprentice as well. Hopefully, she’s learned about it since then. As an aside, I’m reading the new edition of “Heart & Hands: A Midwife’s Guide to Pregnancy and Birth” to review it here on the blog. H&Hs was a staple in my midwifery education, we nearly memorizing it for our NARM exam. I’m assuming Anne Frye’s replaced H&Hs, but know this is still an extremely important text for student midwives. In here it says:

“Check the eyes for red spots, hemorrhages of the sclera due to pressure in the birth canal. Also look for evidence of jaundice: (sic) the whites of the eyes should be white, not yellow. Check to see if the pupils are equal in size and reactivity when exposed to light. Check for tracking by moving your finger back and forth close to the baby’s face. Check the shape and spacing of the eyes, noting any irregularities.”

Then it goes on to erythromycin in the eyes, but nothing about red reflexes. It bothers me that it isn’t in there and disturbs me that I never checked a baby’s eyes for cataracts. I can only pray none of them had one or the Pediatrician found it if there was. That was a roundabout way to explain a black hole, but there you have it. It is unlikely this would happen in nursing and midwifery school…the more I know and the more I hear, the less I like the CPM education. It scares me in many ways. Most of what scares me is the arrogance of the groups behind the education process. Instead of seeing the gaping holes and trying to fill them, they pretend to fill the hole with a teaspoon of dirt. Why can’t NARM see that Biology, Anatomy & Physiology and other science classes should be required for the CPM license? Why, when they had the chance to add classes, they chose a class in cultural sensitivity?"
So your midwife may not have ever had basic biology, anatomy, or physiology, but don't worry, she'll be culturally sensitive!

Home birth advocates often say that midwife care is so personal, and that OBs don't have personalized care at all, but it is really the complete opposite. OBs care about your medical history and current health status, and recommend different courses of action based on your individual situation. For homebirth midwives, it's all the same. No matter what your previous history is or what complications your current pregnancy has, their advice is always the same - homebirth! GBS positive? No problem! Don't mind the babies who die at homebirth from GBS. Breech? No problem. Don't mind the babies who die at homebirth because they're breech. Twins? No problem. Don't mind the twins who die at homebirth. Post dates? No problem. Don't mind the babies who die at homebirth from postdates complications, like placental calcification and meconium aspiration. Low amniotic fluid? No problem. Don't mind the babies who die at homebirth from low amniotic fluid. Previous c-section? No problem. Don't mind the babies who die at homebirth from uterine rupture.

Midwives are either too stupid to realize that these are all serious problems, arrogant enough to believe that they can deal with them themselves with no equipment and no education, or too wrapped up in their pro-nature, pro-vaginal-birth-at-all-costs ideology that they truly believe "some babies are just meant to die."

If you think homebirth is as safe as hospital birth, you are willfully blinding yourself to the truth.

What are the odds you want to choose for your child surviving birth?
pillowy
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Re: Homebirth

Post by pillowy »

I just wrote a blog post about this on my personal blog - 10 Reasons I'd never ever ever have a home birth.

Goodbye, anonymity!
Zedability
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Re: Homebirth

Post by Zedability »

Both my mom and I would have died if it had been a homebirth. Since it was at a hospital, it was low-stress, the doctors prevented the complications, and my mom and I suffered no short or long term effects from it, other than the usual effects of labour.

I have no issue with natural medicine, which I find homebirths tend to be correlated with. (Ie, people who choose natural medicine also tend to choose homebirths). I do have an issue with natural medicine's distrust of science in general and a refusal to let objective analysis point out which things they're doing right, which things they're doing wrong, and which things are pretty much witchcraft.

I basically agree with you but have too many friends and acquaintances who legitimately chose that to rant about it. Because they, like the midwives, don't really recognize how dangerous it is, and to them, what they would hear is "I think you're a bad mom because your life choices are different than mine." And I don't even think people who choose that are bad moms! They are generally good moms who don't always fully grasp the magnitude of these problems. The fact that they make the active effort to choose and set up a homebirth instead of defaulting to a hospital shows that they're making conscious choices about their pregnancy and delivery. They probably hear the advantages of it and think it's a good thing.
pillowy
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Re: Homebirth

Post by pillowy »

I hope they don't hear "I think you're a bad mom." I don't think they're bad moms. I think they're moms who care greatly about their children. I think, like you, they hear they advantages of it, and don't realize how serious and how common the disadvantages of it are. That's what I was trying to get across in my post - the consequences can be serious, and they're much more common at home than at the hospital.
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Portia
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Re: Homebirth

Post by Portia »

I think they're bad moms! Why not do everything in your power to keep your kid as safe as possible? Jeez.

If you want a low-intervention birth at a hospital, birthing center, or with a doctor in attendance in your home, um, communicate that. I, too, would have croaked had my mother not had a NICU available to her/been born a decade earlier.

I rank these women just below vaccine deniers. Menace to modern civ.
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TheBlackSheep
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Re: Homebirth

Post by TheBlackSheep »

Well, geez, Portia. Moms around here have had or strongly considered home births. None of them are bad moms, I don't think.
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Portia
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Re: Homebirth

Post by Portia »

TheBlackSheep wrote:Well, geez, Portia. Moms around here have had or strongly considered home births. None of them are bad moms, I don't think.
Is it possible to say, "I think this is an unequivocally bad medical decision which is unjustifiable in our modern world" without making it an ad feminam attack?

I have a hard time seeing how any level of risk is acceptable when life and death is involved. It seems like you have one must-do as a parent: keep your kid alive, and as far as I can tell, there is no reputable research showing that home births are less risky than hospital births.

I suppose they are not a priori bad people, and calling someone a bad mom may come across as churlish, but women who choose not to vaccinate their children due to misinformation are bad moms who put not only their children at risk but everyone else's children as well as adults. It may well be that in some circumstances the risk approaches zero in this home birth issue, but I think it is narcissistic some of the time to want your birth to be about what you want and not what is safest.

You can be a bad mom from time to time or on certain issues and still be a good person. I know my own mom was.
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Portia
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Re: Homebirth

Post by Portia »

As two thought experiments, consider the following scenarios:
  • My mom got essentially zero pre-natal care for, like, half her pregnancy. (She was in pretty strong denial.) Does this make her a bad mom? Bad decision-maker? Taking needless risk? Selfish? "Good" mom who couldn't be bothered? I think it may have had short-term effects on a complicated birth and long-term effects on my childhood health, but it is what is is.
    My mom would throw absolutely crazy screaming fits for literally no reason whatsoever over the slightest provocation. Does this make her a bad mom? A b****? A sufferer of Intelligent Housewife Syndrome? A "good" mom who had poor anger management?
Both of these are real scenarios, and I guess my viewpoint on it is that in the first, it was risky but mitigated by the fact that she was clearly under stress. I feel like the latter crosses into "bad mom" category, as living in an environment of constant stress does things to one's psyche that are more long-lasting than, say, being a child asthmatic. I don't see why mothers have to be valorized to the degree they are. Hell, I would probably be the same way, especially had I had my children as young as she had and never, ever worked. But that doesn't mean she was immune from mistakes, just because she was a good person.

Anyway I'm glad my grandma was around to ensure that I got the at-the-time state-of-the-art hospital care I needed at birth. I am also grateful we were kept up-to-date on our vaccines.
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Marduk
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Re: Homebirth

Post by Marduk »

Portia wrote: I have a hard time seeing how any level of risk is acceptable when life and death is involved.
Car crashes kill 260,000 children a year. "The World Health Organization found that being on the road or in a car is dangerous for children anywhere in the world..." I guess next time you see someone put their child in a car, you'll think about what a bad parent they are?
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Re: Homebirth

Post by Yarjka »

Home birth is the default. It's been around longer than medicine has existed. All sorts of things can be done to make any activity safer, but there's a point at which you accept the risks in order to retain some of the particular benefits. I hate hospitals, the way they make me feel, I don't feel safe at a hospital, I feel pressure, I feel scared. I never get an explanation for what's going on, the doctors always have an "I know more than you do about this, so don't bother me with your questions" attitude about them. I would rather give birth at home in a familiar environment and with a midwife who will answer my questions and have a real relationship with me than give birth in a sterile environment surrounded by rushed nurses who make me feel like I'm doing everything wrong and who treat me like a number in a spreadsheet rather than a human being. I'll give up a little (or even quite a bit) of my safety (and my child's safety) for that. I guess that makes me selfish, but we only live once and I'll be damned if I'm going to go through an experience that I don't want when I have a choice of something else that I would prefer.

That said, I'm a man, so it's somewhat of a moot question for me.

My wife ended up at the hospital, where they panicked us about the child's heart rate and they insisted on monitoring it, and they made us feel rushed and pressured by saying they'd have to induce if the baby didn't start coming soon, etc. So that whole birthing plan we gave to our doctor (who wasn't even there the day of the birth ... the doctor who delivered was actually great, though, even though I only saw him for a total of five minutes at the most) could have just as well been crumpled into the trashcan. The nurses and doctors have their way of birthing and it's extremely difficult (in my limited experience) to get them to change that.

From what I've researched, it seems like those who have home births have thought about the safety and methods of birthing very much, and could not be described as "bad parents." You may disagree with their ultimate decision, but they're not generally throwing caution to the wind.

Another factor with the death rates of home birthing in the United States is that it is not well supported here. In countries where midwifery is covered by insurance and is seen as a legitimate option for birth (and training of midwives is better and more supported), the death rates of home birthing are lower. Basically, it's no surprise that hospital births are safer, that's where all the money and support is going.
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Re: Homebirth

Post by Eirene »

You know, I think homebirth is usually a poor parenting choice, but I also think most people who choose homebirth are probably trying to be good parents who look out for their kids and themselves. Most people in the world, even otherwise intelligent people, have little or no significant education in medicine, science, or statistics. Most people, again, even otherwise intelligent people, are not able to correctly interpret (or even find) scientific evidence that appropriately answers medical questions (e.g., what conditions are unsuitable for homebirth, are essential oils effective, and so on). It's not their fault that uneducated lay midwives tell them that dangerous situations are safe or that real risks can be ignored just because they are rare. Frankly, I'm not sure if it's the lay midwives' fault either--they're allowed to get their certification with only a high school degree and zero hospital experience, what do you expect them to actually know about anything? I do blame their governing organization, MANA, which allows them to get away with absurdly little education and training, I blame all physicians and nurses who agree to work with the lay midwives, and I blame legislators and medical boards who don't condemn and ban lay midwives who charge people money and claim to provide safe medical services while being utterly unprepared for common urgent or emergent situations.
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Portia
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Re: Homebirth

Post by Portia »

Eirene wrote:You know, I think homebirth is usually a poor parenting choice, but I also think most people who choose homebirth are probably trying to be good parents who look out for their kids and themselves. Most people in the world, even otherwise intelligent people, have little or no significant education in medicine, science, or statistics. Most people, again, even otherwise intelligent people, are not able to correctly interpret (or even find) scientific evidence that appropriately answers medical questions (e.g., what conditions are unsuitable for homebirth, are essential oils effective, and so on). It's not their fault that uneducated lay midwives tell them that dangerous situations are safe or that real risks can be ignored just because they are rare. Frankly, I'm not sure if it's the lay midwives' fault either--they're allowed to get their certification with only a high school degree and zero hospital experience, what do you expect them to actually know about anything? I do blame their governing organization, MANA, which allows them to get away with absurdly little education and training, I blame all physicians and nurses who agree to work with the lay midwives, and I blame legislators and medical boards who don't condemn and ban lay midwives who charge people money and claim to provide safe medical services while being utterly unprepared for common urgent or emergent situations.
Boom. This is why you're a nice person and I'm not. (I won some kind of poll for "meanest writer." That still stings a little. >.<)

I think this was said very cogently. And I want it to be disseminated more widely.
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Portia
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Re: Homebirth

Post by Portia »

Marduk wrote:
Portia wrote: I have a hard time seeing how any level of risk is acceptable when life and death is involved.
Car crashes kill 260,000 children a year. "The World Health Organization found that being on the road or in a car is dangerous for children anywhere in the world..." I guess next time you see someone put their child in a car, you'll think about what a bad parent they are?
Hey, I don't drive, never have. (And yes, it would probably cause me even more heinous anxiety than driving alone would.)

I might just be a very risk-averse person?

But I don't think that's the strongest argument, because in a mid- or large-sized city in the U.S., having a hospital birth is not an undue burden. (Except for our ridiculous insurance system. Having a kid costs you like 100 times more here than in France. No one really knows why.) At least, I rarely hear about homebirth from a financial angle, much more the angle Yarjka talks about. I don't love hospitals either, but it's not a convincing angle to me.

Now I'm curious how likely one is to be offed in a car on the way to the hospital. O_O
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Portia
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Re: Homebirth

Post by Portia »

Also this thread is the ultimate in #whitepeopleproblems

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vorpal blade
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Re: Homebirth

Post by vorpal blade »

Jane Johnson Black was a midwife and delivered 3,000 babies during her lifetime (19th century). All the babies and all the mothers survived without doctors or hospitals.
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Portia
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Re: Homebirth

Post by Portia »

vorpal blade wrote:Jane Johnson Black was a midwife and delivered 3,000 babies during her lifetime (19th century). All the babies and all the mothers survived without doctors or hospitals.
On many occasions it was not bravery that saved the Black family, but quick thinking. As she and her sons prepared to leave Montrose, Jane started to dig up the guns which she had hidden under the wagon when several men on horseback surrounded the wagon. They asked what she was doing under the wagon. She smiled and replied, "You know we Mormons have the power to resurrect. I am now in the act of resurrecting."
The leader of the mob roared with laughter saying, "She is only a crazy Irishwoman, let's be moving."
Source.

Okay, this woman is legitimately the best. Vorpal wins Threadjack of the Day.
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vorpal blade
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Re: Homebirth

Post by vorpal blade »

Portia wrote:Okay, this woman is legitimately the best.
Yes, my great great great grandma is the best.
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vorpal blade
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Re: Homebirth

Post by vorpal blade »

Last night I watched the first episode of the British TV drama series Call the Midwife. If you needed a reason not to have a baby you might check this out. Or, perhaps the benefits of homebirth. I found it on Netflix.
pillowy
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Re: Homebirth

Post by pillowy »

I saw this satire page today - http://utahmidwives.weebly.com/. I think it perfectly illustrates the problem with Utah's voluntary licensure for midwifery laws.
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Re: Homebirth

Post by NovemberEast »

I'm just tired of hearing home-birth moms tout how high and mighty they are for their beautiful fearless natural organic free-trade grass fed birth.

whatever.

I'd rather end up in a hospital that won't let me move around than end up like the many women my med-school friends tell me about seeing on their service. I've heard too many stories about women having their child get "stuck" screaming all the way from the hospital door to the hospital bed ...and then some more.

no thank you. not for me. never. nope. no. no. no. no. no.
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