LDS Handbook changes - SSM, Apostasy, and children

[TheBlackSheep]

I believe you are correct, Amity and Zedability. Also, just to make it clear, while parental consent was always necessary for baptism, moving out and disavowing one's parents' relationship was not.

It's almost like... the more faithful you are, the more hurtful the policy feels, because the Holy Ghost can be such a comfort.

I see your point here, and I can understand you feeling like this policy bars precisely the types of people that the Church needs more of. I'm, of course, concerned about the kiddos involved, and I'm also quite concerned about their gay parents. I've already heard intense fears that this policy will play into divorce proceedings ("If she lives with you she can't get baptized!"), and in general I'm worried about the implications on parent-child relationships as there is one more way to demonstrate that being gay is somehow so much worse than so many other things. I'm worried about a lot of things and feeling a lot of things, but that is one of the biggest for me.

[Rainbow_connection]

I think the policy is hard to take in, and I'm sorry for the pain it has/will cause. My husband was a convert and has mentioned that he would have felt hurt and excluded if he hadn't been allowed to be baptized just because his (divorced) parents were both living with people they weren't married to. On the other hand, I do think there's a qualitative difference between the church telling a child that his parents should marry their boyfriend/girlfriend and the church telling a child that his parents should break up. Then again, the policies don't exclude children from attending church, so I guess I don't see how not letting them be blessed or baptized will keep children of same-sex parents from hearing that their parents should not be together.

[Katya]

Starting on Friday, I had a terrible headache that wouldn't go away. Headaches aren't uncommon for me, but this one was particularly persistent even after I had a decent night's sleep on Saturday. It wasn't until this morning that it occurred to me that the problem was that I was seriously dehydrated from crying so much this weekend.

[Zedability]

Starting on Friday, I had a terrible headache that wouldn't go away. Headaches aren't uncommon for me, but this one was particularly persistent even after I had a decent night's sleep on Saturday. It wasn't until this morning that it occurred to me that the problem was that I was seriously dehydrated from crying so much this weekend.

I've been tense and sweaty and my stomach has been all tied up in knots even though I feel like I've figured a lot of stuff out for myself. I think there's this lingering fear that some latecomer will see my blog post and freak out, like a grandparent or something.

[TheBlackSheep]

I feel you ladies. I cannot sleep, and there was a day when I could not stop crying.

[Whistler]

I found two posts on tumblr:

an LGBT member comments with gifs: http://cdotaugust.tumblr.com/post/13288 ... -expressed

slam poetry http://badtripsandrocketships.tumblr.co ... poetry-for

[mic0]

My mom posted this from BCC.

I don't have much to add. This whole thing is confusing and seems like just a terrible move with so little reasoning of any kind.

[NerdGirl]

I'm really, really sad about this. Just really sad. I was finally at a place where I was thinking maybe I would try dating women, because I just want some companionship. I want to be with someone and although I'm probably technically bisexual, I'm not very often attracted to men. It's not even about sex - I'm somewhere between asexual and demisexual, I think. (This is why I like the word queer for myself.) And now I just don't even know anymore. I don't know anything other than that I'm sad. And I'm not an orthodox believer, but the church is important to me and I want to be part of it even if I don't agree with anything. But now I don't know if the church will want me anymore.

[Katya]

I'm really, really sad about this. Just really sad. I was finally at a place where I was thinking maybe I would try dating women, because I just want some companionship. I want to be with someone and although I'm probably technically bisexual, I'm not very often attracted to men. It's not even about sex - I'm somewhere between asexual and demisexual, I think. (This is why I like the word queer for myself.) And now I just don't even know anymore. I don't know anything other than that I'm sad. And I'm not an orthodox believer, but the church is important to me and I want to be part of it even if I don't agree with anything. But now I don't know if the church will want me anymore.

A corporate handbook may not want you, but we do.

[Zedability]

Just read the comment section of a Fox News piece about calls to the suicide hotline spiking since the policy change. I cannot believe how many people are BENDING OVER BACKWARDS to blame LGBT teens for feeling suicidal. Just. What. On. Earth.

Heaven forbid ANYTHING should challenge your ability to be rude to people who are different than you... I'm so freaking angry right now that I can't even think of how to express it.

NO CHURCH POLICY SHOULD BE CONSTRUED TO PROVIDE AN EXCUSE TO HARASS PEOPLE INTO SUICIDE. DRAWING ATTENTION TO THE ISSUE OF LGBT SUICIDE IN THE CHURCH IS NOT THE SAME THING AS DENYING THE CHURCH. Anyone who can't see the difference is...I don't even have words.

[TheBlackSheep]

Oh NerdGirl. I'm so sorry. I am so sorry. I hope you do whatever will bring you the most joy.

And Zed, I just... That is probably the one thing on this earth that infuriates me more than any other thing. How DARE they. The hypocrisy and lack of compassion just baffles and incenses me. Less severe example, in that she did not blame the kids: in one of our marathon talks this week, I told my parents about the elevated rates of calls to the suicide hotlines, and my mother said that that probably had very little to do with the new policy. We talked about statistics, we talked about shame, we talked about precedent, and none of it mattered. We talked about my suicide attempt from back when I was dealing with my sexuality AND IT DIDN'T MATTER. I just don't understand WHY people have that reaction.

Then again, my mom also told me that I couldn't belong to a group that has been systematically oppressed because gay people didn't exist or were at least incredibly rare when she was growing up.

[Digit]

because gay people didn't exist or were at least incredibly rare when she was growing up.

That makes me think of this:

[Zedability]

*facepalm*

It just seems like an incredibly reflexive reaction to avoid having to look in the mirror and consider whether their reactions are contributing at ALL.

Angry blog post forthcoming.

Someone actually tried to claim that the FOX NEWS article was an example of media bias trying to smear the Church for standing up for how homosexuality is wrong. FOX NEWS. TAKING THE SIDE OF HOMOSEXUALS. I wanted to tell them to turn off the Glen Beck and take a nap.

[Whistler]

TBS, your mom sounds infuriating.

this tumblr is collecting the experiences of QUILTBAG people http://forbidnone.tumblr.com/

BYUUGA's post: https://byuusga.wordpress.com/2015/11/1 ... t-mormons/

[Integrating Editor]

My dad has told me that the idea of being trans was made up a few decades ago. So of course I'm just making stuff up/being deceived because I can't actually be trans.

[yayfulness]

The more stories I read, the more ashamed I am. I am seriously considering adding a note to my cover letter (yes, two and a half months after graduation I still haven't found a job in my field) to clarify that even though I served an LDS mission and attended BYU, I no longer attend church and don't associate with the religion. I know they can't refuse to hire me on those grounds, but that's not the problem. The problem is that I am honestly ashamed of a church and a body of church members that are so unapologetically hurtful. I can't be one of them. I can't even let people assume I'm one of them.

I'm sorry, but you can't honestly claim to be protecting children if the means you're using to protect them is causing the sort of psychological trauma that sends a 12-year-old into depression and counseling or causes an 18-year-old to attempt to take his own life and then cut off all contact with his family in the hospital (both actual stories I have read).

I really want to ascribe good intentions to the church's leadership, but it's really hard not to see this as part of an ideological purge.

[Portia]

Hugs from the Caribbean.

Which raises a good freakin' point. Here I am frolicking on a tropical island, having plenty of premarital fun, and guess what my Mormon family members have done to "shun" me?? Zilch. Nada. I think they're thinking that since I'm finally coming to Sunday dinner and dating a Nice R.M. ExMo ("he's so responsible!!"), they'd better not offend me and drive me away.

Regardless where you stand that's pretty freakin' inconsistent. Is it because I've accrued a respectable number of Heterosexual Points™? (Add opposite sex partners, subtext same sex?)

I AM THE APOSTATE. These are people who WANT this Church in their lives and I'M treated with more respect.

It makes me angry for everyone hurting. Although my feelings re: church activity have not changed, I've been very impressed by the level of empathy and compassion shown here.

I'm darn lucky to walk through life as a conventionally attractive, straight person in a country where I'm free to be an unmarried atheist. This "saga" has opened my eyes how much absolutely vile behavior is directed at those who are not thus privileged.

Sigh.

[Digit]

My dad has told me that the idea of being trans was made up a few decades ago. So of course I'm just making stuff up/being deceived because I can't actually be trans.

It's always a succinct proof when you take as a given the very thing you're conjecturing.

[Zedability]

Frankly, I think the reactions of members are making this problem about 900% worse than the policy would be on its own.

[TheBlackSheep]

Frankly, I think the reactions of members are making this problem about 900% worse than the policy would be on its own.

I humbly disagree. I think they are making it worse, but not 900% worse from my perspective. The policy is really hurtful all on its own. Then again, I am just grouchy times a million. Which is minimizing myself. But anyway.

Apparently my bishop came to my door last night. My dad wouldn't let him see me. Because of some serious stuff that happened 15ish years ago, my parents attend church in a neighboring stake to the one they live in. Long story, but it's all sanctioned. This meant that they and the bishop didn't know each other. Apparently the bishop said I have to sign something or they won't process my resignation. This, of course, is not accurate. No signature is needed. I'm waiting to get the whole story from my dad before I call the executive secretary and tell him I won't meet with the bishop, but thank you, and please process my resignation right now. It's just one more thing and I am so overwhelmed.

I am so discouraged and sad. I keep hoping it will feel better. I did not move in with my parents at a good time.