Katya wrote:Fredjikrang wrote:Nope. I've determined that through personal and shared experience, and would suggest that is the only way to know.
OK, so what are the clues that tell you that some things have free will and some don't? What is the evidence you look for, one way or the other. I'm arguing that a deterministic predictability of response is a good indicator that something doesn't have free will. Do you agree? Do you have another methodology?
I have been thinking about this through the day, and I think I have come to where the sticking point is. You are trying to say that if there is only one choice, there isn't really a choice, correct? But I think that the real question is, if someone knows beforehand what you are going to do, is there really only one choice, and so no choice?
So, it seems like you are trying to determine an answer without requiring that God exists, or, in other words, independent of the existence of God, and in my opinion, there is no answer unless he does.
Here is what I am thinking.
Assume that God exists, and that he is an omnipotent, omniscient, being who can not lie, and is unfailingly good.
Because he is omniscient he knows everything that has, and ever will happen.
Assume that God creates man, and gives him the ability to choose. Now it would seem that this is the origin of the present conundrum. Does man really have the ability to choose if God already knows everything that he will do. I would say that, yes, he does. Why? Because there is no set of natural laws that defines what a person would do. Think about it from the perspective of the pre-mortal existence. God created all of his children, cared and loved them all in the same way, and eventually gave them all the same choice. One third chose to rebel against his plan, while two thirds upheld it. Why? Because they had the power to choose. There is no law determining that those created at a certain time, or any other "physical" pattern rebelled and the others did not. It was because of their own choice. Or, in other words, it was because they are not bound by the laws of nature. They made the choice even though it was known by God beforehand what their choice would be.
So, I guess that basically I would say that free will is manifest in actions that are not demanded by the laws of nature, and that the fact that as a whole, people make different decisions when presented the same choice is evidence that they can make choices.
Now let's say that God may or may not exist, so trying to determine an answer independent of the existence of God. First of all, there is a major problem. How can someone else know what you are going to do? If there is no omniscience, then the debate is automatically dead, as you can not even get to the point where you could say that there is only one choice.
I'll admit that my logic isn't perfect, but considering that as we, as humans, have an extraordinarily difficult time understanding time as anything but linear, I think it is a decent explanation.