#52588 - Medicaid

[bismark]

But here's the difference, alcohol is strictly against the spoken word of the prophets and doctrines of the church, whereas accepting or applying for medicaid is not stealing

it is easy to find plenty of teachings from the prophets on being self sufficient and living within our means. if not stealing, what else would you call taking money from medicaid when it is not needed?

then it would be the government who is doing the stealing, not Claudio and others that receive assistance.

i don't understand what you are trying to say. as citizen, we fulfill our patriotic duty to pay taxes for a variety of reasons, including social programs to help out the impoverished. people who take advantage of those programs are using the money inappropriately. if there was some easy way to stop people from taking advantage of the system, well, then our government would be much more efficient i suppose.

medicaid is based off income and financial need rather than some beaurucrat determining the morality of receiving assistance for each applicant.

as i already said, just because you can, doesn't mean you should. the gospel teaches a higher law.

[Yellow]

So... am I "stealing" when I apply for (and am awarded) a Pell grant? I'm sure there's someone out there who could use it more than I could. No doubt in my mind. That doesn't mean that I don't need it.

bismark, I know for a fact that you've applied for scholarships. I also know that there's someone out there who needs the money more than you. I'm really struggling to see the difference here.

[Waldorf and Sauron]

a person has to make that moral call for themselves,

Oh, you said it, you said it!

Argument over.

[bismark]

So... am I "stealing" when I apply for (and am awarded) a Pell grant? I'm sure there's someone out there who could use it more than I could. No doubt in my mind. That doesn't mean that I don't need it.

bismark, I know for a fact that you've applied for scholarships. I also know that there's someone out there who needs the money more than you. I'm really struggling to see the difference here.

the money i pay in taxes is split up multiple ways: some goes to pell grants, money that is used to invest in people going to school in order to become better citizens. that money exists for that purpose. if someone were to figure out a way to get a pell grant and then NOT go to school, the situation would be similar to someone taking medicaid when they are not truly in need.

[bismark]

a person has to make that moral call for themselves,

Oh, you said it, you said it!

Argument over.

sad, though perhaps true. perhaps i should just stick to deriding people who improperly use welfare money instead of actually trying to discuss why its wrong.

[vorpal blade]

I'll go ahead and open myself up for the inevitable derision I will face on the message board and say that my wife and I planned for our daughter with Medicaid.

I was just wondering whom Claudio was thinking of when he wrote that. I hope it wasn't me. I believe the only person I have poked fun at was a writer who was deriding and belittling someone who asked a question on the board. I don't believe in derision as a legitimate discussion tool. If someone else feels that I have derided them, let me know. I apologize in advance.

For the record, I don't believe Claudio did anything illegal. I wouldn't quarrel with someone who says that just because it is legal doen't make it right, but it isn't for me to judge Claudio. I'm glad that Claudio and his wife decided not to wait to have children. It would have been nice if they could have found some other way to pay for it, but it is not for me to say whether it was right or wrong. And since they say they have prayed about it and felt right about it I would leave it at that. It is none of my business.

Nothing wrong with discussing the general issue; it just doesn't need to get personal.

[Imogen]

I'll go ahead and open myself up for the inevitable derision I will face on the message board and say that my wife and I planned for our daughter with Medicaid.

I was just wondering whom Claudio was thinking of when he wrote that. I hope it wasn't me. I believe the only person I have poked fun at was a writer who was deriding and belittling someone who asked a question on the board. I don't believe in derision as a legitimate discussion tool. If someone else feels that I have derided them, let me know. I apologize in advance.

For the record, I don't believe Claudio did anything illegal. I wouldn't quarrel with someone who says that just because it is legal doen't make it right, but it isn't for me to judge Claudio. I'm glad that Claudio and his wife decided not to wait to have children. It would have been nice if they could have found some other way to pay for it, but it is not for me to say whether it was right or wrong. And since they say they have prayed about it and felt right about it I would leave it at that. It is none of my business.

Nothing wrong with discussing the general issue; it just doesn't need to get personal.

i think the gentleman doth protest too much...

[krebscout]

This seems to me a contradiction. Why should one have more pity for a person who chooses not to use preventative measures than not? I don't get it.

i was under the assumption that accidental == not trying to get pregnant == using preventative measures. then there is a big difference between "oh crap the condom broke what are we going to do now?" and "so what if we are too poor, damn the torpedoes! full speed ahead!"

Well, condoms are easy to get for free, so that bit of clarification does help. But still, I bet "accidental" births are more prevalent among those not taking precautions (young teens, etc.) than actual bona fide birth control malfunctions.

However, it doesn't make the determination any easier. All a person has to say is "oops" and they get benefits? This is one reason, I figure, that the government program is set up by income level rather than intent; intent can be faked. And if the program is dictated by income level--for everyone--then who (besides, apparently, you) gets to make the moral call on its use? Equal treatment sucks sometimes, but that's how the system works.

I know this is a long-dead thread, but I've been thinking about this point...as Foreman said, intent is hard to judge, and even if they didn't have the right intent, does it really matter? In the end you're still pregnant and you can't pay for it whether "the condom broke" or it was "full speed ahead," and the best interest of society is to take care of the child no matter how the child came to be. And surely many of the people on Medicaid could have made better choices in the past that would have precluded their current situation, be that staying in high school or using a more reliable form of birth control or whatever.

I don't know. It's not a perfect system, but boy oh boy am I glad the Lord provided a way for us to take care of our son's hearing aids.

[Cuddlefish]

The fun thing about tax-dollar funded programs like Medicaid is that everyone (assuming they have a job) pays for them. Therefore, everyone is entitled to their benefits if they can prove a need. It doesn't matter if a college student, irresponsible with his money as he might be, uses Medicaid to have a child, because chances are he will pay back the money he used when he gets a real job and starts paying taxes on his earnings. People who use Medicaid to have kids despite having no real income in the foreseeable future, well, I feel sorry for them, and I feel like they deserve to feel the happiness associated with raising a family. I'm not stingy with my tax dollars. I don't care much about how much of my paycheck goes to it or who gets the benefits of it, because I have more than enough to meet my needs, and I personally feel like that money is better spent making sure a teenager gets the medical attention she needs through prenancy and birth than it would be if I bought an xbox with it. And I don't even care if the teenager was using a contraceptive or not. That's her problem, and none of my business.