Sexual content vs. violence

[bobtheenchantedone]

On The Daily Show a few weeks back they did a story about - Fox, I think it was? - who freaked out about a mildly sexual scene in a recent episode of a TV show. The Daily Show mocked their outrage by playing a montage of clips from highly popular crime shows - a parade of discussion about rape, murder, torture, and other violent crimes.

I'm finding that I'm different from many people I know and apparently from the American population in general because I vastly prefer sexual content in media to violence. And it's not just that I can't stand to watch violence (I will never read or watch Hunger Games, and often close the door between the rooms if Marduk's mother is watching a crime show in the TV room while we're in the kitchen) but also that I find sexual content can be appropriate or even just interesting.

I have two questions, and you can answer either or both. One is: would you rather see sexual content or violence, and why? (I'm talking about television-appropriate scenes, such as a couple naked in bed covered by a sheet or blanket vs. a crime show's showing a dead body or discussing exactly how the body came to be dead.) Two: Why do you think our society is much more accepting of violence in media than sex?

[Katya]

One is: would you rather see sexual content or violence, and why? (I'm talking about television-appropriate scenes, such as a couple naked in bed covered by a sheet or blanket vs. a crime show's showing a dead body or discussing exactly how the body came to be dead.)

I don't know that either one of those would necessarily bother me, but R-rated violence would probably bother me more than R-rated sex.

Two: Why do you think our society is much more accepting of violence in media than sex?

If you flip that around, I think we're unusually prudish about sex (at least compared to Europe). Why that manifests itself in the form of being more tolerant of violence, I don't know. Maybe it started with our idealization of the wild west?

[mic0]

I would way rather see sexual content than violence. That being said, I hate the forced sexual tension in shows because I feel like it is a stupid gimmick. Nevertheless, it is better that gratuitous violence (and, to me, it seems like almost all the violence is gratuitous...).

[bobtheenchantedone]

One is: would you rather see sexual content or violence, and why? (I'm talking about television-appropriate scenes, such as a couple naked in bed covered by a sheet or blanket vs. a crime show's showing a dead body or discussing exactly how the body came to be dead.)

I don't know that either one of those would necessarily bother me...

Fair point. I added the qualification because I wanted to make sure I got answers with more thought than "I avoid everything bad in media."

[Katya]

Fair point. I added the qualification because I wanted to make sure I got answers with more thought than "I avoid everything bad in media."

Repent, bob! Repent of even asking this question!

[Whistler]

I'll take any of it! I am trying to desensitize myself to blood. Like, so I will be less likely to faint when I get my blood drawn. So far I have been successful, although I did read that that kind of syncope is automatic. It only took three seasons of Bones!

[Marduk]

I'm curious how much of it is a remnant of puritan ideals.

[Genuine Article]

I have no problem with violence, seeing dead bodies, or watching medical shows with lots of blood. The exception to that is scenes of domestic violence. For example, we watched the three Godfather films a few years ago, and I was fine with people being shot in the eye or garroted, but watching Carlo beat Connie was without question the worst thing I have ever seen. I was absolutely traumatized. I asked myself why that would be the case, and I realized that I had never before witnessed any sort of domestic violence, be it in real life or on film.

As for why I can stomach unnecessary violence but not unnecessary sex, I don't think there's an answer to that. I think it's just a gut reaction where some things faze you and some things don't. My husband can't watch medical dramas because of all the blood, whereas I love medical shows despite not being able to handle blood in real life.

Lastly, as far as society is concerned, I think it largely stems from censorship laws. What's let through is what we're accustomed to seeing, so that's what we accept as a society and it becomes the norm. The thing is, American standards are the reverse of British standards. In the US, violence is okay to show on TV and sex is not. In most of Europe it's the opposite, which is why their after-school programming is full of stuff we would consider pornographic, but they don't bat an eye at. Watch Monty Python's Flying Circus and you'll see lots more nudity than would ever be allowed in the US, but surprisingly little violence.

[Dragon Lady]

This isn't entirely what you're asking for, but it reminded me of a topic that's been on my mind lately. One thing I have against sex in media is that it makes breasts very, very sexualized. To the point that people are starting to think that's the only thing breasts are good for. And then someone breastfeeds their baby in public and gets kicked out of restaurants or museums or at the very least gets glares and reproachful looks because, in the words of my sister-in-law, "That's what I hate about breastfeeding. Women think they can just whip them out anywhere." And yet I've never, ever heard her say anything against women in bikinis or low-cut blouses.

I'm sure this doesn't really belong here and should probably be a thread in and of itself. But it's an outlet for my current pet peeve. So sorry. But it's people like her (and I love her for other reasons, but can't stand this aspect) that make it so I can't sit in my church meetings or the park or anywhere and feed my baby. I have to go find a secluded spot to nurse. I can't tell you the number of times I've sat in the back of my car on the far end of a parking lot or left a meeting to go sit in an over-crowded mother's lounge just to feed my child. And I can't say that it's due to leftover puritan ideals, because there are paintings of even pioneers nursing their children in public. I blame it on the formula push back during WWII that changed the public view to first, Breastfeeding is bad, then when it was no longer common place, people were uncomfortable because media had made breasts sexualized, not functional. </rant>

[Eirene]

The difference for me is that I find overly sexual content in media merely distasteful, whereas violence is actually disturbing and distressing. I think that's because sex and occasional nudity are normal but private parts of life. I generally prefer not to see other people involved in those things, but it's not shocking or upsetting to me or anything. I have a very visceral response to violence, though, because I just cannot stop thinking about how wrong and evil and out of place it is. It's not the blood or the gore (medical shows are no problem for me to watch); it's watching people get angry and do horrible things to each other. I almost quit reading Mistborn halfway through because of how awful some of the descriptions of torture were--thankfully, LJ censored the rest of the series for me with occasional post-it notes covering the most gruesome parts.

Basically, sex and nudity are just things that are supposed to be private, but violence is something that shouldn't happen, period, so it seems that much more wrong for it to be a part of entertainment.

[Dragon Lady]

thankfully, LJ censored the rest of the series for me with occasional post-it notes covering the most gruesome parts.

That is awesome.

As for the rest of your thoughts, Eirene, I think that's a wonderful way to put it. It puts words to thoughts I've had, but never was able to explain, even to myself. I hate violence in movies. I tolerate sexual things, but wish they weren't there. I know both are bad, but I couldn't figure out why I put one over the other. As for books, violence and sexual scenes are both distasteful, but tolerable under certain circumstances. But they still bother me. There are series I love (such as Mistborn) that I'm torn as to whether I actually should love them or not. Should I recommend them? Should I even read them again? Should I own them? Should I let my children read them? At what age? It's a dilemma I've been trying to figure out for the last year or two.

[Tao]

I am far more tolerant of the more graphic crime-scene violence than any form of sexuality in the media. As long as it is done well, the CGI up close and personal scenes made popular by shows like CSI can be actually quite educational (Both academically and experientially; I learned of some of the dangers of a heart condition I have via a CSI episode, and I know emergency responders who attribute a fair portion of their coping methods to shows seen where they can attune with characters facing even worse conditions). I see very little of value in a sex scene.

[Dragon Lady]

But what about non-medical violence?

[NerdGirl]

I am not bothered by the actually visual depiction of either on TV/in movies because I know that it's fake. I know you all also know that it's fake, but I just have like a mental thing where I just think about how they staged it and I don't really buy in to it that much. That being said, the plotline of violent scenes actually does really disturb me sometimes and I don't feel that way about sex. Sex is consensual and people enjoy it (unless we're talking about rape, but then I would put that in the violence category). Although I do agree with Dragon Lady's comment that the over sexualization of breasts is a problem. Blood and guts and cutting people up kind of stuff on TV doesn't bother me, but any talk of abuse (I pretty much can't watch Law and Order) really does. I love The X-Files, but the one episode that I really can't handle watching is Hell Money (SPOILER ALERT), which is about black market organ selling and this guy ends up losing this game where he's trying to make money to help his daughter and they cut out his heart. I can't even watch that and there's not really anything graphic in that episode, it's just the idea of it that really bothers me.

[Yarjka]

I am not bothered by the actually visual depiction of either on TV/in movies because I know that it's fake. I know you all also know that it's fake, but I just have like a mental thing where I just think about how they staged it and I don't really buy in to it that much.

This is how I react as well. If anything looks extremely realistic, I immediately ask myself how they achieved such realism and start thinking about the technical skill it took for the actors and crew to make that happen.

My wife, however, doesn't make this disconnect. For her, what she sees in a movie may as well have happened in real life. She becomes very involved in the world of the film, such that the boundary disappears. That never happens for me--I am always distinctly aware that I am watching a movie.

Of course, I watched A Clockwork Orange when I was still in elementary school, so I've had a strong regimen of desensitization.

[bobtheenchantedone]

Fair point about censorship laws influencing the norm, GA, but I wonder why violence was preferred over sex preferred in the first place?

Well put, Eirene. I, like DL, was wanting to say some of those things but couldn't find the words.

Dear DL, I am down for breastfeeding in public discussions any day. That was the most recent discussion on this board that I got into trouble for. It's one of the few topics I have strong feelings on and am willing to argue about. As relates to this topic, all I have to say is that while the sexualization of breasts is a problem, especially as relates to breastfeeding, I am not one who thinks that breasts are only for breastfeeding. And I'll stop. ; )

Tao, I wrote a big long thing and then deleted it because that's what I do. (Seriously, almost all of the posts I make on this forum have been edited like five times.) The point I was trying to make in my paragraph to you is this: sex is incredibly important in the lives of almost anyone who ever lives, and therefore absolutely has a place in our media. Only in extreme cases (which I would probably avoid) should it be explicit, and if that's what you meant by "sex scene" then yes I agree with you, but for it to never be present is to deprive many stories and relationships of much of their reality and ability to be related to. Mormon girl that I am, in a novel I'm currently working on sex is discussed and partaken of because that's what happens in real life. The story would lose a lot if I tried to keep it all ambiguous or pretended that everyone in the novel was asexual.

[Yarjka]

Dear DL, I am down for breastfeeding in public discussions any day. That was the most recent discussion on this board that I got into trouble for. It's one of the few topics I have strong feelings on and am willing to argue about. As relates to this topic, all I have to say is that while the sexualization of breasts is a problem, especially as relates to breastfeeding, I am not one who thinks that breasts are only for breastfeeding. And I'll stop. ; )

This reminds me of a time I was watching Millions with a friend of mine who was adamant about not wanting to see any sex/nudity in the media. There was a breastfeeding scene (or at least, a nipple presented and breast feeding discussed) in the film and he made a point to leave the room. I didn't much care for his reaction.

[Dragon Lady]

Dear DL, I am down for breastfeeding in public discussions any day. That was the most recent discussion on this board that I got into trouble for. It's one of the few topics I have strong feelings on and am willing to argue about. As relates to this topic, all I have to say is that while the sexualization of breasts is a problem, especially as relates to breastfeeding, I am not one who thinks that breasts are only for breastfeeding. And I'll stop. ; )

Oh, I definitely agree! I'm just bugged by the the fact that breasts have become so sexualized that people are forgetting it's functional. Case in point: my 7-year old nephew has no idea what breastfeeding even is. I was nursing Niffler Jr. under a nursing cover with him nearby. The following conversation ensued:

Nephew, pointing to cover: What's that?
Me: A nursing cover.
Nephew: What's 'nursing'?
Brother Jr., with absolute panic in his face and voice that he may have to say the word 'breast' to his son: It's another way to feed a baby.
Nephew: But that's not how Mommy feeds [our baby].
Me, taking pity on Brother Jr., though disgusted: There are two ways to feed a baby. You can nurse them or give them a bottle.
Nephew: But you gave Niffler Jr. a bottle at the baptism today.
Me, deciding against explaining pumping: Sometimes it's hard to nurse with lots of people around, so I'll give Niffler Jr. a bottle.
Nephew: Oh, ok. [walks away]

I so badly wanted to turn to my brother, point my finger at him, and say, "You are the reason breasts are sexualized. You are the reason your son will grow up having no idea that breasts can be functional. You are the reason I have to often leave the room or sit in a discreet corner to nourish my baby every two hours instead of being able to participate like a normal human being doing something natural!" I didn't, because he knows how I feel about the subject and I know that it's largely his wife's fault, not his. But I was so angry at them and felt so sad for his kids in that moment that I was very glad he laid down immediately and took a nap, lest I say something I'd regret.

Ok. Really. I'm sorry for the derailing. This is a subject I feel very strongly about at the moment (largely starting with this conversation) so I just keep going. If anyone else is interested in commenting, perhaps we should make a new thread? Unless y'all are ok with the two subjects being interlaced.

[Katya]

I so badly wanted to turn to my brother, point my finger at him, and say, "You are the reason breasts are sexualized. You are the reason your son will grow up having no idea that breasts can be functional.

Maybe he'll go on a mission to some place where breastfeeding in public is really common and then he'll get over it.

[Katya]

Dear DL, I am down for breastfeeding in public discussions any day. That was the most recent discussion on this board that I got into trouble for. It's one of the few topics I have strong feelings on and am willing to argue about. As relates to this topic, all I have to say is that while the sexualization of breasts is a problem, especially as relates to breastfeeding, I am not one who thinks that breasts are only for breastfeeding. And I'll stop. ; )

This reminds me of a time I was watching Millions with a friend of mine who was adamant about not wanting to see any sex/nudity in the media. There was a breastfeeding scene (or at least, a nipple presented and breast feeding discussed) in the film and he made a point to leave the room. I didn't much care for his reaction.

Oh, I love Millions and I don't think that scene was out of place in the film, but I also don't know that I'd show it to young kids. (Actually, my discomfort with showing kids the scene is because the scene itself is a discussion of how we view sexuality, which strikes me as more awkward, for some reason.)