settling for good enough

[Portia]

Some people are fine with mediocrity. My sister is one of these people. Her flute lessons (a giant waste of money and so far west they might as well be in Nevada) demonstrate this eternal truth. No amount of cajoling, crying, bribing, praising, and threats would change the fact that, fundamentally, she simply doesn't care about her mistakes.

I have serious doubts whether everyone sees the "value of accomplishment through perfection." I say this as the poster girl for perfectionism.

Why does it matter if 11- and 12-year-olds are artistically accomplished? If they want to be, they'll work. I did, without the cajoling, prodding, screaming, and tears, but because I loved the piano, and wanted to win life.

Isn't this one of those cases of living vicariously through your children? Kids are in too many lessons these days.

Not that I think that he should be a pill. I'm stern enough with kids that age. But crying shows weakness, so strike one, there, and I think it also shows he's not invested, and would rather be outside playing.

[Portia]

I feel compelled to add that there is plenty my sister excels at: she is unfailingly kind to animals and small children, she has a first-rate eye for art and an ear for comic timing, she's an accomplished baker and canner and seamstress, she's strong in math, and I believe she has some untapped athletic potential.

But she's a mediocre flautist and dancer, at best, and I guess it's force of habit that keeps her in these lessons. My brother will always be a better tap dancer than her (he is better than everyone), she will never surpass me on the piano, which she doesn't "get."

I don't think humor and baking and crouching down to a five-year-old's level to comfort her are very "lessony" things. It's a real shame that essentially selfish but "genius" people like me are deemed perfect and the kind but un-"talent"-(show)-ed are given short shrift. Don't waste your money trying to turn your kid into someone he or she isn't, I think.

[bobtheenchantedone]

Then again, I didn't have the drive to teach myself piano and was just mildly interested in it when I was a kid, but if my mom had gotten me lessons (or simply been more dedicated about teaching me herself) I would be at least decently skilled now instead of starting over with beginner lessons at age 25. So there's a difference between trying to force a kid to do something they don't want to do and helping a kid who is interested but not at all self-motivated, and I don't know that we can tell which is which from this.

And I'd even argue that while they're still kids, if they have talent the parents should be doing what they can to encourage them even if the kid doesn't seem to want it too much. There are far too many kids who would rather be playing but will regret being allowed to play later in life (like me), not to mention that having to stick with the lessons can teach discipline and other beneficial traits.

Working with the boy to find something he wants to play that is a little out of his reach is an excellent idea; I use the same method when trying to get myself to practice. : )

[Whistler]

I guess I agree with Portia here. If the kid doesn't want to listen to a lesson, maybe he'd be better off teaching himself. Or maybe he'll enjoy it more as a teenager--it's not like if you quit for a while you can't pick it up again when you're more disciplined.

[Violet]

TBH, the kid sounds like me as a child. After being that kid, I'd tell the teacher to find him someone else who is less toward the wits' end and more interested in developing skill than perfection. I thrived in lessons based on theory and sightreading, but when I had teachers that refused to let me move on until something was "perfect" I was frustrated and resented practicing.

The best thing for me was a teacher who mixed Jazz and Classical style in my lessons. I learned a lot of skills that helped me be better at piano from the time sitting down, rather than through drilling practice.

[Portia]

TBH, the kid sounds like me as a child. After being that kid, I'd tell the teacher to find him someone else who is less toward the wits' end and more interested in developing skill than perfection. I thrived in lessons based on theory and sightreading, but when I had teachers that refused to let me move on until something was "perfect" I was frustrated and resented practicing.

The best thing for me was a teacher who mixed Jazz and Classical style in my lessons. I learned a lot of skills that helped me be better at piano from the time sitting down, rather than through drilling practice.

Yes, this teacher sounds far too high-strung for the student. Good feedback.

[S.A.M.]

we all want to win life. Every person has different win objectives, though.

[Katya]

we all want to win life.

No, not everyone feels this way. (Even taking into account different "win objectives.")

[Whistler]

thanks for bringing this up. Did any of you have the lesson in RS/EQ that is basically "if you follow God you cannot fail!"? I'm still kind of confused by it. Like, if you're following God you're not failing to follow God! That seems pretty obvious. I feel like I have the right to follow God and feel like I've failed at certain things in my life (and I'm okay with that).

Another possible interpretation I thought of is that since we're going to live eternal lives, there's no finality of damnation to stop us from progressing, therefore saying we've failed is premature. Except you can fail to do things, and it's not like you can go back in time and change that.

Also, I feel like the idea that "you cannot fail!" is just assuming that I hate failure, or that I see things in black and white terms.

[UffishThought]

Yeah, that sounds like an assertion that needs more clarification. If you follow God you cannot fail . . . at what? At your math test tomorrow? I bet you can. But I could maybe get behind a "eventually you'll figure out math, if it's important in the hereafter." Or if you follow God you cannot fail to get into heaven. Maybe.

[bobtheenchantedone]

Ack I would hate that lesson! I already struggle to deal with failure, I don't need the idea that it means I didn't have enough faith thrown into the mix.

[Random]

I kind of wish someone had made me get some sort of lessons when I was a kid. Maybe if I had dance lessons I wouldn't be so afraid of it now...

[vorpal blade]

thanks for bringing this up. Did any of you have the lesson in RS/EQ that is basically "if you follow God you cannot fail!"? I'm still kind of confused by it. Like, if you're following God you're not failing to follow God! That seems pretty obvious. I feel like I have the right to follow God and feel like I've failed at certain things in my life (and I'm okay with that).

Another possible interpretation I thought of is that since we're going to live eternal lives, there's no finality of damnation to stop us from progressing, therefore saying we've failed is premature. Except you can fail to do things, and it's not like you can go back in time and change that.

Also, I feel like the idea that "you cannot fail!" is just assuming that I hate failure, or that I see things in black and white terms.

We had that lesson 8 days ago. The lesson is chapter 11, titled “I Seek Not Mine Own Will, but the Will of the Father. ”Here is what it says in the part I think you are referring to.

When we seek God’s will, we follow a course in which there will be no failure.
There is a course that men and women may pursue wherein there will be no failure. Whatever disappointments may arise or seeming failures may result, there will be in reality no failure, as a general thing. … There have been times when it seemed as though we were moving backward; at least, it has to those who were not fully enlightened in regard to the mind and will of God. The Church has passed through very strange experiences, and the people have made great sacrifices. … But we have come along through these sacrifices, and as a people there has been no failure. Why has there been no failure? Because the people, as a whole, have had their minds fixed upon the true principles of life, and they have conformed to their duty. … The people generally have had the Spirit of the Lord, and have followed it. Hence there has been no failure. So it may be with individuals. There is a course for every person to pursue in which there will be no failure. It will apply to temporal as well as spiritual matters. The Lord has given us the keyword in these verses that I have read from the Book of Doctrine and Covenants:

“If your eye be single to my glory, your whole bodies shall be filled with light, and there shall be no darkness in you, and that body which is filled with light comprehendeth all things. Therefore sanctify yourselves that your minds become single to God.” [D&C 88:67–68.]

That is the key by which a person can always be successful. Paul says:

“I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.” [Philippians 3:14.]

A grand object that every Latter-day [Saint] ought to have before him constantly. What is that prize? … “All that my Father hath shall be given unto him.” [D&C 84:38.]

What I understand from this is that we will succeed in doing whatever God wants us to do. If God wants us to learn to play the piano, we will succeed if we work hard at it and call on God for help. If God wants us to get married and raise a family, we will not fail in that. If we pursue an independent course and try to succeed at something that is not particularly God's will then there is no guarantee that we will succeed. The thing is to find out what God wants us to do, then we can work hard at that goal and we will succeed, eventually.

[thatonemom]

I kind of wish someone had made me get some sort of lessons when I was a kid. Maybe if I had dance lessons I wouldn't be so afraid of it now...

I was just thinking something like this the other day. It feels like there's an age where it's no longer acceptable to be truly terrible at a new thing. No one expects a 4 year old to be good at soccer, and there are whole teams of newly minted players. The same isn't really true once you're 24. (or maybe my self consciousness is showing)

[Katya]

I kind of wish someone had made me get some sort of lessons when I was a kid. Maybe if I had dance lessons I wouldn't be so afraid of it now...

I was just thinking something like this the other day. It feels like there's an age where it's no longer acceptable to be truly terrible at a new thing. No one expects a 4 year old to be good at soccer, and there are whole teams of newly minted players. The same isn't really true once you're 24. (or maybe my self consciousness is showing)

I think that's generally true, but it doesn't have to be. Most people I know who teach lessons of some sort (music lessons, etc.) are perfectly happy to have adult students who are beginners, especially if they already teach children who are beginners, because adults are better at learning the abstract aspects (say that five times fast!) of the field. But I've found it gets a lot harder once you're working in a team situation, because it's simply harder to find groups that are geared towards absolute beginners. E.g., I really enjoyed the beginning weightlifting and ice skating classes I took at BYU, but the beginning tennis class I took was a lot more frustrating because it wasn't an individual sport, so it made a bigger difference that I was the least experienced / skilled of anyone in the class.

So, I think most people would be supportive of you for trying something brand new, at any age, but at some point it becomes much harder to find peers to practice with.

[Marduk]

Which I think brings this conversation full circle to our discussions on fear of failure, and how endemic it is culturally. I've long maintained that one of the greatest successes a parent can achieve with a child is to reduce that fear, allowing the child to not be afraid to try new things/look stupid. The benefit of being able to play the piano/sing/dance/play an instrument really pales in comparison to this lesson, if adequately taught.

[vorpal blade]

Which makes me think of President Thomas S. Monson. Wasn't it last General Conference that he told us that his mom only wished he had kept up with his piano lessons?

[Emiliana]

I'm a little late to the party here, but I had a student last semester who always said, "I didn't fail, I succeeded at finding something that didn't work! I'm really good at finding things that don't work." He was one of my favorites.