how the board helped you

[Portia]

Writing for the Board helped me immeasurably in search skills. A lot of my job involves sifting through impossibly dense thickets of information, and considering that I rarely used the Internet in high school (except at my grandma's, to stalk my crush's baseball stats), I'm really glad I learned how to search efficiently and effectively.

Anyone else?

[Katya]

Writing for the Board honed my skills in persuasive writing. (You're often trying to convince the reader to do something, and this is probably the only chance you'll get.)

Writing for the Board also introduced me to all sort of random databases and reference sources that are perfect for answering certain types of questions.

Lastly, writing for the Board helped rid me of a need to give people advice. Not that I don't still like doing it (doesn't everyone?), but after four years of people directly asking for my/our advice on things, I've come to understand that you really should wait for people to ask for your advice instead of giving it to them unsolicited.

[vorpal blade]

Lastly, writing for the Board helped rid me of a need to give people advice. Not that I don't still like doing it (doesn't everyone?), but after four years of people directly asking for my/our advice on things, I've come to understand that you really should wait for people to ask for your advice instead of giving it to them unsolicited.

I agree that you normally should wait for people to ask for your advice, but there must be some exceptions. Would you, or anyone else here, like to comment on whether or not parents should give unsolicited advice to their adult children? I know some people who not only think they should, but they have a responsibility to give such advice when they see their children making questionable decisions. Any thoughts? Maybe I should ask the board.

[UffishThought]

I think it depends on how the advice is given. I don't mind when my parents say "have you considered..." or "maybe you should try..." or "if I were you, I would...." My parents and I have a very good relationship, though, and I've been able to tell them before when I felt hurt by things they said--so now they're more careful what they say to me, and I trust them more because of it. Also they have good advice.

On the other hand, I've been caught in the middle of roommates who were related, and sometimes they interfered in each others' lives in ways I thought were inappropriate even for parents, let alone sisters. The justification for those actions was love: one sister felt like she had a responsibility to say something and save the second sister, if she thought she was straying from the path--sort of a brother's keeper thing, I guess. But in my mind, I feel like all she can appropriately do is say "hey, I've noticed X, and it concerns me because Y, and I love you and want you to make choices that will make you happy, like Z." Instead, she would regularly lecture her sister on why X was wrong, even though that sister understood the logic, but was making an (educated, if occasionally unwise) choice to live another way. She would demand information and details about the sister's life that really weren't her business, she would tease and humiliate the sister publicly and privately, she would use selective information and scare tactics to get other members of the family involved, and she would contact other parties in her sister's life to tell them that if they really cared about her, they would help her convince the sister to do Z instead of X. I love both sisters dearly, but I can't express how glad I am that they aren't living together anymore, because that was sometimes a nightmare.

And I think there's a reason adults often move away from their parents. They need to learn to make their own mistakes and suffer the consequences, and parents need not to be constantly tempted to offer advice on the little things. Even though my relationship with my parents is strong, I doubt I could live at home, because I know they would disapprove of the hours I keep and the amount of time I spend on my computer and so on. They would probably have a point, but I need to be free to work those little things out on my own, and not feel judged because of them.

When it comes to giving (unsolicited) advice, I think it's possible, but it needs to be done with someone you're close to, who knows you love and support them. (Another problem with those sisters: though the worried sister is motivated by love, she mostly shows it by attacking the second sister, which makes her feel unloved, and less willing to take advice from her.) And then I think you have to back off right after offering the advice. You can't make choices for them, and you shouldn't keep trying new approaches and avenues to convince them to live your way. Once you've given the advice, if they're not taking it, it's not because they don't understand you, it's because they've made another choice, and you have to let them. And, as a bonus warning, the more you give them advice that they DON'T take, the more uncomfortable they are going to be around you, because they'll be aware of the discrepancy between who they are, and who they know you'd like them to be.

[UffishThought]

Ooh, bonus case study!

My friend grows a dang good beard, and he should, too. He looks half his age without it, and he looks much better with it. His parents feel like even though BYU's honor code is not official church doctrine, it's some kind of higher law, so it's immoral to have a beard in today's world. They've made their position clear, and they mostly let him make his own decision (although they once tried to rope me into telling him beards are gross and look bad, which backfired because my dad had a beard, and I love it) BUT they also told him they would only help pay for his education if he were clean-shaven. While I think they're within their rights to do that, I also felt like it was petty and foolish. (Not to mention misguided. Beards are great!)

Good points: they voiced their concerns, didn't stray into his personal life to motivate him, and ultimately let him make his own decision.
Bad points: they kind of put all their eggs in one basket. If he decides he'd rather have a beard, then he no longer has the ability to pay for school, and they want him to be in school. He can only do the big important thing they both want if he also complies with the smaller, less important thing that only they want.
Result: for a while, he just shaved off his beard every time he saw his parents or a sibling who might rat on him to his parents. But the dishonesty wore on him, and his parents efforts to micromanage his choices wore on him, too. Ultimately, he decided to drop out of school so that his parents can't hold the tuition money over his head anymore. He's working fulltime, and maybe someday he'll have enough savings and the motivation to go back, but for now, he's happy to be making his own choices without feeling a sense of obligation to obey his parents' every whim.

[Whistler]

I don't think I give unsolicited advice, although once when a friend of mine was dating two people for weeks on end I told him he should choose between the two. Not sure if it made any difference though.

About the OT, the Board helped me make friends and have a group I felt I belonged with. I had my wards and classes before, but it wasn't the same. My board friends stayed with me through graduation and moves, which I can't say for many of the other friends I made in college. I think I could have achieved the same results through a club, but for some reason I never joined one other than like, Russian club, or that semester I went to Jiu-Jitsu club. Writing for the Board was also really good writing practice.

[UffishThought]

And on topic, now:

Most of my friends in college were Board-related, one way or another. A few were not: Genuine and krebscout and several others you wouldn't recognize were ward/improv friends first. But there was a lot of crossover, even there. And many of the people I met and learned to love are wonderful, wonderful people.

Writing so much undoubtedly helped me hone my writing and style, and helped me learn to write a lot on a deadline.

I learned a whole bunch of cool stuff. A lot of it I've forgotten, but some of it I haven't.

It helped give me a little more self-confidence. I was so awkward and had so few friends in high school. College was already better, but being a minor internet celebrity that people liked and wanted to know more about helped me feel like I really did have something to offer.

At the same time, I learned to take celebrities with a grain of salt. They're just people that for some reason or another, have more of an audience. Sometimes that's because they have brilliant ideas or are charismatic. Often it's just circumstance. At any rate, it's okay to disagree.

I got better at searching for information. I don't think I'm a genius at it, but I'm better than many people, and I can often find what I'm looking for.

It's also a decent extracurricular to put on my resume, I guess.

[vorpal blade]

Thanks for the advice, UffishThought. As you can imagine I wonder how much to say to my children.

[Genuine Article]

I've been caught in the middle of roommates who were related, and sometimes they interfered in each others' lives in ways I thought were inappropriate even for parents, let alone sisters.

I can't apologize enough for you being stuck in the middle of that. My parents hardly ever offer advice, which is perhaps why some of my older sisters feel the need to step up and act so stereotypically "parental," which I see as a commentary on my parents' parenting more than anything else.

As for the Board being awesome, I think the Board has helped me refine my thinking and be more open-minded. It has also turned me into a proofreading freak. I see misused punctuation and spelling mistakes everywhere (billboards, product labels, etc.) and it grates at me that I can't fix them like I can on the Board. And while I don't do as much research as I should, I'm definitely a better-than-average Googler now. Also, I feel like most of my (hopefully) lifelong friends are somehow connected to the Board, even though I waited to write until most of the Boardies I knew had retired.

[UffishThought]

I've been caught in the middle of roommates who were related, and sometimes they interfered in each others' lives in ways I thought were inappropriate even for parents, let alone sisters.

I can't apologize enough for you being stuck in the middle of that. My parents hardly ever offer advice, which is perhaps why some of my older sisters feel the need to step up and act so stereotypically "parental," which I see as a commentary on my parents' parenting more than anything else.

Eh, no biggie. It was frustrating at the time (in fact, it prompted conflict-averse me to offer some unsolicited advice of my own in the "you need to knock that right the crap off because you're way out of line" vein), but now that they live apart, things are much better. And, taken individually, all three of you sisters have numbered among my favorite roommates (and people). When I move to my new place, I won't be living with any of your family for the first time in years, and I will miss it.

[thatonemom]

On the OT, I have years and years of Valentine's ideas thanks to this question Portia of years past answered for me. Apparently thatonemom of years past did not believe in decent punctuation, but that's another story.

As for unsolicited advice, I think it's complicated. When I've gotten unsolicited advice it was hard not to feel like the giver was saying some variation of:
some rude thing
something that hinted at my incompetence
something irrelevant due to circumstances the advice-giver was unaware of

With adult children, I think you have to be especially careful not to talk down to them or say things that might imply they don't know what they're doing. I think that would be really hard to pull off if, in fact, you did think they didn't know what they were doing. And for adult children who live on their own, or have a family of their own already, it's probably safe to assume there are lots of circumstances in their lives that a parent might not be aware of. And that's not a bad thing.
I think most adults know how to ask for advice when they are willing to accept it. Getting unsolicited advice has never made me feel more comfortable (or trusting) of the person who gave it to me. So I guess I'm against it, in general.

[Emiliana]

I think there's a difference between giving advice and presenting information or ideas. "Have you thought about ... " is much less obnoxious than "You should .... "

[NerdGirl]

Thanks for the advice, UffishThought. As you can imagine I wonder how much to say to my children.

I obviously don't know the dynamics of your family relationships, but I tend to think it's better to err on the side of saying what is on your mind at least once as long as you say it respectfully and in a way that makes it known that you are making a suggestion, not telling them what to do (this goes for any close family member or friend, not just your children). If they aren't receptive, then drop it. But I welcome advice from my parents. I don't always agree with them (although I usually do), but it makes me feel good to know that they care enough about my life to have opinions about it.

[Portia]

Ooh, bonus case study!

My friend grows a dang good beard, and he should, too. He looks half his age without it, and he looks much better with it. His parents feel like even though BYU's honor code is not official church doctrine, it's some kind of higher law, so it's immoral to have a beard in today's world. They've made their position clear, and they mostly let him make his own decision (although they once tried to rope me into telling him beards are gross and look bad, which backfired because my dad had a beard, and I love it) BUT they also told him they would only help pay for his education if he were clean-shaven. While I think they're within their rights to do that, I also felt like it was petty and foolish. (Not to mention misguided. Beards are great!)

Good points: they voiced their concerns, didn't stray into his personal life to motivate him, and ultimately let him make his own decision.
Bad points: they kind of put all their eggs in one basket. If he decides he'd rather have a beard, then he no longer has the ability to pay for school, and they want him to be in school. He can only do the big important thing they both want if he also complies with the smaller, less important thing that only they want.
Result: for a while, he just shaved off his beard every time he saw his parents or a sibling who might rat on him to his parents. But the dishonesty wore on him, and his parents efforts to micromanage his choices wore on him, too. Ultimately, he decided to drop out of school so that his parents can't hold the tuition money over his head anymore. He's working fulltime, and maybe someday he'll have enough savings and the motivation to go back, but for now, he's happy to be making his own choices without feeling a sense of obligation to obey his parents' every whim.

Did your friend go to BYU?

[UffishThought]

Nope, he went to UVU.