Answers I liked

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Zedability
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Re: Answers I liked

Post by Zedability »

I had a boyfriend who personified the "I'm so much better because I have doubts" attitude. He was very fond of bringing up the issue (like "one of Joseph Smith's wives was 14 and it bothers a lot of members"), implying that he was able to have a testimony anyways, but being annoyingly superior and vague about why he was faithful even though he thought Joseph Smith was wrong. So then it just plants the doubt in the other person (me) without doing anything to build their testimony. It introduced me to a lot of anti and made me afraid of what I would find, too, and I ended up adopting that same attitude to cope with it. It was quite a few years until I fully overcame that and developed a testimony that finding answers would always be a good thing. It required learning how to tell the difference between an unbiased academic source, and a source that was pretending to be unbiased while really twisting things and taking it out of context. Actually, the Board ended up really helping me with a lot of that :) My mission ended up resolving the rest of it – somehow I ended up running into the answers even though I wasn't looking for them because I was focusing on serving others. Investigators would have the same question and my companion or district leader would know, or I would find something on lds.org or in the scriptures, or the Spirit would just illuminate it for me.

I think it's okay to doubt and even publicly express the doubts, and it's definitely not against our covenants to doubt. But I think it is against our covenants to ENCOURAGE others to doubt what the prophets have said in favor of believing our own personal opinion. Like, you'd probably get a weird reaction from the ward for saying something like "I think the Church is wrong to deny women the priesthood" over the pulpit in testimony meeting, but I don't think you're breaking your covenants. Looking up sources that fight against the Church, sending them to your friend, and trying to convince them that the prophets aren't inspired and they should share your view, IS against covenants, in my personal opinion. One of the articles I read said something to the effect that heresy is about belief, but apostasy is about action. The Church doesn't really care about heresy in most cases, but it does care about apostasy. Taking active action to try to get other people to follow your opinion over the prophets is fighting against the prophets.

I find it especially problematic because I think people need to approach questions as they're ready for them. The essence of the Church is that the Doctrine of Christ and authority to administer its ordinances has been restored, which leads people to salvation. That's the point. These other issues are not the point, but it can cause people to distance themselves from these core doctrines. I think eventually, every member should want to get their testimony to the point where they can look at any of these issues, and find the answers. But if they aren't at that point, looking at answers CAN cause them to doubt or fall away - not because the answers aren't there, but because they're not ready to understand them. Then people can fall away. So you may be strong enough to have this against-the-prophets opinion and still be active, and that's good. But the other person may not be, and you're jeopardizing their salvation by trying to actively sway people, as well as crossing the line from heresy (believing and expressing personal opinions) to apostasy (trying to get others on your side).

As an example, as a kid the idea of the endowment confused me and I couldn't understand it. It actually really upset me that I didn't know what was going on and it really stressed me out. My mom eventually told me I wasn't mature enough to understand the answers to the questions I was asking and stopped talking about it with me because it just wasn't going anywhere productive. Five years later, I still hadn't gone through the temple, but I understood the point and it didn't bother me. Nothing had changed except my maturity. Spiritual maturity and difficult gospel questions work kind of the same way.
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mic0
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Re: Answers I liked

Post by mic0 »

Wow, Zed, that is a super thorough answer! I don't agree with it all (or even a lot of it :)), but I really respect the time and effort you put into it. Niiiiiiice. I'm surprised they let you post the quote from Whitesides about how she is happier and more spiritually fulfilled outside the church!

eta: Along with what you and Whistler were talking about, people being proud of their testimonies for having doubts, that POV surprises me a little because I was (while in the church) always ashamed of my doubts. It is always interesting how different people can be.
Last edited by mic0 on Thu May 07, 2015 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Zedability
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Re: Answers I liked

Post by Zedability »

Haha I think thorough answers are more impressive when they post on time, but thanks!
Emiliana
The Other Token Non-Mormon
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Re: Answers I liked

Post by Emiliana »

Well, I finally took action on this awesome advice from Ms. O'Malley about a peace offering to JoJo's crazy-&*( mom: http://theboard.byu.edu/questions/81600/

Hopefully that will go over well.
Emiliana
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Re: Answers I liked

Post by Emiliana »

Emiliana wrote:Well, I finally took action on this awesome advice from Ms. O'Malley about a peace offering to JoJo's crazy-&*( mom: http://theboard.byu.edu/questions/81600/

Hopefully that will go over well.
Soooo she just wrote back a short novel about why she is glad that I emailed her but she still feels theologically justified in speaking the truth in love.
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Portia
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Re: Answers I liked

Post by Portia »

Emiliana wrote:
Emiliana wrote:Well, I finally took action on this awesome advice from Ms. O'Malley about a peace offering to JoJo's crazy-&*( mom: http://theboard.byu.edu/questions/81600/

Hopefully that will go over well.
Soooo she just wrote back a short novel about why she is glad that I emailed her but she still feels theologically justified in speaking the truth in love.
Hahaha that's precious
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Shrinky Dink
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Re: Answers I liked

Post by Shrinky Dink »

I really liked the answers given in regards to polygamy BQ#82427

On another note in response to BQ#82468, about 20-30 years ago when the main form of birth control was the pill, my mom's friend got pregnant and didn't know until the baby kicked the cart at the grocery store and made it move. I think it's easier to find if you're pregnant now with at home pregnancy tests, but I can also see how someone could easily think they're not pregnant until something actually happens. This could be especially true if you're prone to have small babies, you have really strong stomach muscles, or you are a little chubby to begin with.

Also, there was TV show called "I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant" on TLC. It's a little entertaining to watch clips, but mostly I get concerned because the child is always referred to as 'it' never 'he' or 'she' or by a name, which makes me think that the babies frequently are put up for adoption or don't make it.
*Insert Evil Laughter Here*
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Portia
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Re: Answers I liked

Post by Portia »

Shrinky Dink wrote:I really liked the answers given in regards to polygamy BQ#82427
Meh. I think it makes him a morally questionable person, at the very least, and any time a leader figure is above the law-law or moral laws, it makes me feel gross.
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Portia
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Re: Answers I liked

Post by Portia »

I would say that I experience a state of hypervigiliance more days than not. I'm a very anxious person. It's actually INCREASED as I've gotten older. I'm used to it, I guess.
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Digit
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Re: Answers I liked

Post by Digit »

I would be miserable in a job that required me to continually go onto people's property. I'd keep thinking the next house would be the one where some angry person was going to deem me a tresspasser no matter what I said and do something rash.
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
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Whistler
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Re: Answers I liked

Post by Whistler »

wait, do the meters seriously need to be read once a month? that seems ridiculous to me.
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mic0
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Re: Answers I liked

Post by mic0 »

According to this county's meter reading FAQ it is usually read every other month. Also apparently it only takes a meter reader <10 seconds to read the meter, so no doubt it can just look like someone walking by not even paying attention.

I looked it up for my county, and they apparently have a water meter reading device attached to a van that receives signals from the meter when it drives by! Pretty crazy. I don't know if all this stuff is about water meters or another meter, but surely you can have a similar thing for any type of meter. This does make a lot more sense for sprawling suburbia than someone physically walking to every single house.
M.O.D.A.Q.
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Re: Answers I liked

Post by M.O.D.A.Q. »

Fun fact: someone originally removed the "Animals - Dogs" tag on this question. I added it back. I'm glad it slipped through.
Emiliana
The Other Token Non-Mormon
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Re: Answers I liked

Post by Emiliana »

Beautiful, sympathetic answers to the rape question. http://theboard.byu.edu/questions/82618/
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yayfulness
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Re: Answers I liked

Post by yayfulness »

I'm just rather disappointed in myself for not saying something like "talk to a lawyer ASAP and listen to what that lawyer has to say before actually taking any of our advice." Thank goodness for reader corrections. Hopefully she has read them.
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Portia
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Re: Answers I liked

Post by Portia »

Zed wrote:The way this guy has behaved and the things he said strike me as manipulative in a way I can't quite put my finger on.
I can! He's applying a double standard and using his status as a "priesthood holder" to manipulate someone sexually inexperienced while conveniently overlooking his lapses in this area (and, if her report is to be believed, rather casually discarding his sexual partners).

Blergh. The discourse around "spirituality" has bothered me since I was 14 and felt emotionally manipulated at EFY, but this behavior takes it to a new level. Own your choices, bro. (I certainly made similar-enough choices, but I didn't go around vaunting my Greater Spiritual Status, and I have met and even gone out with this kind of guy in real life. Yuck.)
Zedability
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Re: Answers I liked

Post by Zedability »

Portia wrote:
Zed wrote:The way this guy has behaved and the things he said strike me as manipulative in a way I can't quite put my finger on.
I can! He's applying a double standard and using his status as a "priesthood holder" to manipulate someone sexually inexperienced while conveniently overlooking his lapses in this area (and, if her report is to be believed, rather casually discarding his sexual partners).

Blergh. The discourse around "spirituality" has bothered me since I was 14 and felt emotionally manipulated at EFY, but this behavior takes it to a new level. Own your choices, bro. (I certainly made similar-enough choices, but I didn't go around vaunting my Greater Spiritual Status, and I have met and even gone out with this kind of guy in real life. Yuck.)
Running on almost no sleep made it almost impossible to answer the question in complete sentences, let alone use higher reasoning processes, haha.

I don't see anywhere in the question that mentions he's specifically invoking the priesthood as the reason for his increased spirituality, though - just the fact that he reads the scriptures a lot.
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The Happy Medium
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Re: Answers I liked

Post by The Happy Medium »

https://theboard.byu.edu/questions/82707/
I feel like I should be able to collect royalties whenever someone on the board uses my 'nym. (Although...I did steal it from Madeleine L’Engle in the first place)
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Portia
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Re: Answers I liked

Post by Portia »

I truly don't understand pseudonym-stealing. It's juvenile and pointless.
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Whistler
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Re: Answers I liked

Post by Whistler »

I enjoyed reading the answers to the stressed mom question http://theboard.byu.edu/questions/82726/

I feel sorry for the moms who suffered from depression. It made me realize that I have it really good! I cook, clean, keep my baby alive, and occasionally see friends! I have started going on bike rides with my daughter and it helps me feel like I'm getting out of the house and doing something I like while not being all that bad for my child either.

I felt sorry for the question-askers. If any of them are on this board they can message me and I can come harass them :-). The problem of not being able to find a babysitter seems weird--is it a married student ward? There are tons of teenagers in Provo who want to babysit, but it's hard to know them if you're in a married student ward >_>. Plus two responses is twice as many people as you need to babysit a baby.

I know the "more than you know" line of rhetoric comes from a place of wanting to help, but I find it very patronizing. Like... don't tell me what I do and do not know! But no hard feelings.
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