#46121 - Best pop songs

[A Mom, but not yours]

What do you think makes a song "pop"? Is pop actually a genre of music? Or simply what's popularly played on the radio at a given point in time on pop radio stations?

I'm honestly not trying to stir the pot. I've really wondered about this many, many times in the past. While I detest the Beatles, I honestly can't complain about Claudio's choices. I am curious, however, what his runner up songs were. Especially since there were a couple of artists on his list that I would never have considered pop artists - at least in general. Giving it some thought, I could see similarities in some of their music to stuff that made his list. So he, at least, was somehow considering it a separate genre with characteristics I haven't quite placed.

What do you think? What makes a song a pop song?

(And Claudio, if you're reading this, I'd love to know your criteria and what other songs you considered.)

[jooniper]

I don't know about defining pop, I just wanted to say I think Claudio did a great job, even if I don't love each of those songs- that's because in general I'm not a fan of pop.

[Unit of Energy]

I always thought that pop was whatever was popular. Coming from the word popular. But there is definitely a difference in what pop music is and what other music is. Country and pop, while coming closer to each other every year, have distinct differences.

[Imogen]

"Pop" is a specific genre of music, hence why MJ is the "King of Pop." However, it can cover a broad range of things, from the Beatles (who are also classified as "Rock") to Britney Spears (who is a straight up "pop" artist.) Pop is characterized by catchy beats/hooks/choruses and sometimes totally asinine lyrics that are easy to remember. they also generally make people dance in a silly way.

i would've chosen one of the Beatles poppier songs for the list, but i'm not Claudio.

[A Mom, but not yours]

Unit of Energy, you say that country and pop have distinct differences. Can you give me examples? What makes one song country and another pop?

And the reason I'm asking you specifically for clarification is that one of the artists on his list that made me think for a bit (but not the only one) was Garth Brooks. Who I always thought of as a country artist. Other than his ill-fated Chris Gaines venture.

[Nanti-SARRMM]

Unit of Energy, you say that country and pop have distinct differences. Can you give me examples? What makes one song country and another pop?

You can country dance to one but not the other?

[A Mom, but not yours]

Dude, I can't country dance at all, but there are a lot of non-country songs you can country dance to and a lot of country songs you can't country dance to. I'm not sure that helps much.....

[Tao]

What makes one song country and another pop?

My sister and I have had many long hours talking about this, and more. Where we currently stand come from looking at historical progression of each genre, and presumed motivation of current artists. Country is descended from the old ballads, where music was background and singing was optional. Listen to some Ian Tyson or CW McCall or some of Chris Ledoux's early works, and you can see that the music and the singing take a back seat to the message.
Blues shares the ballad background, but is usually associated with the African-American spiritual ballads as opposed to the Western frontier ballads.

In the 50's America was introduced to a new genre of music wherein the rhythm was more important than the message. Rhythm guitars, drums, and rhyming lyrics were the norm, and the younger generation took to it immediately, rocking and rolling across the nation. Many modern genres you can attempt to pigeonhole in like manner, rap focuses on lyrical rythm whereas hip hop focuses on instrumental rhythm.

'Pop' is hard to define, as it's origin can be found among all other genres. As I understand it, pop music is music that was made and marketed to sell albums, as opposed to selling a story or a guitar riff. Pop to me is an appeal to the popular mainstream. Almost all music has pop elements in it nowadays, if produced at a commercial level.

I don't know if that is anything at all like what you were asking about, but that is what came to mind when I read your post, and I figured I would induct you into the interesting inter-family conversations held at the Tao home.

(I was going to go more in-depth, listing and linking more (Bill Haley, Elvis, Etc.), but I figured I'd quit while I was ahead. Guess now everyone knows what kind of music I was raised on.)

[A Mom, but not yours]

Thanks Tao. That makes a lot of sense and it's nice to know I'm not the only one who struggles with such things.

[Claudio]

Responses!

1. The question of "what is pop?" is one that has plagued me for years. Every time my wife gets mad at me, she threatens to ask that question to me on the Board, and it puts me in my place. The thing is that pop is really more of a feeling than a genre. Yes, there is undoubtedly a pop genre, as was noted, but I don't think pop is limited to it. There can be strong aspects of pop in virtually any style of music. Metal, country, rap, rock, alt, punk, and everything else can have pieces of pop woven through it. These pop-like aspects are often termed "pop sensibilities." As such, I consider pop to be a term best used as a describer, not as a genre. The things that make me think something is poppy include:
A) A strong chorus
B) A good hook (whatever it may be. As Blues Traveler says, "The hook brings you back." It can be a guitar riff (like Metallica's "Enter Sandman," a great piece of pop metal), a melody ("Maneater" by Hall and Oates has this melody that sticks with you like crazy), or a chorus or outro (the previously listed "Hey Jude"))
C) General accessibility. The best test I've found for this is if you can at least hum the chorus after you hear it for the first time
D) The feeling that it could be on the radio, whether it actually is or not (which is why you can be underground, but still be pop)
E) To a lesser extent than the above reasons, a predicable format is another strong part of pop (verse, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, solo, chorus, chorus) but isn't required for it. I mean, look at "Losing My Religion" by REM. Great pop song, but not even close to a standardized format.
Really, like I said, I just have this sense of pop that goes down deep in my bones. I can hear a song and say, "Hey, what a great pop song that was!" even if it was completely belonging to another genre. It's...a blessing and a curse? I dunno.

2. Other songs I considered: "God Only Knows" by the Beach Boys; "I Will Always Love You" by Whitney Houston; "The Thunder Rolls" by Garth Brooks; "Under Pressure" by Queen and David Bowie; "Somebody to Love" and "Bohemian Rhapsody" by Queen; "Vision of Love" by Mariah Carey; "Penny Lane" and "Here Comes the Sun" by the Beatles; "...Baby, One More Time" by Britney Spears; "Crocodile Rock" and "Tiny Dancer" and almost anything else by Elton John.

3. I considered other Beatles songs, but I thought that "Hey Jude" was the best of their songs that really met my requirements for pop.

4. Those who ponder my inclusion of Garth Brooks (which you really shouldn't, if you think about it) should wait for another 90-someodd hours. Someone asked me about it and I justified my inclusion of Garth in a list of pop artists. Prepare for bedazzlement.

These aren't all my favorite songs either, but the question was about what the best pop ever made was. I feel pretty comfortable about my answer, and I appreciate the kind responses!

[A Mom, but not yours]

Thanks Claudio. I like the clarification. And like I said, after thinking about it, my first questioning of Garth and Queen on the list disappeared. So, I'll back you up on that one. To be honest, today's "country" music is more like the pop of my high school years than most of today's pop. And there are a plethora of country fans out there who rebelled a bit against some of Garth's stuff because it wasn't country enough. I was therefore expecting something more like The River, but I can certainly buy The Thunder Rolls.

[Imogen]

hey mom who's not mine,

if you listen to the taylor swift song "teardrops on my guitar" i think it has a good distinction on what makes a song country and also pop. there's even a country version and a pop version. they're exact same except that the country version has twangy guitars in the background. when i think of country i think of that twang, either of the guitars or the voice. but garth brooks is a country singer who crossed over into pop.