Word of Wisdom prohibitions

Damasta · Post by **Damasta** » Mon May 04, 2009 11:29 am

I totally agree with Ineffable in werf's interpretation that the restriction on tea and coffee includes decaffeinated tea and coffee, because they still include plenty of other harmful chemicals, including oxalates, and tannins (also found in high concentrations in red wine). But they also contain beneficial compounds such as theanine, catechins, flavonoids (especially kaempferol), and polyphenols (especially resveratrol, found in red wine). However, if you examine the Wikipedia articles on the beneficial substances found in tea, coffee, and red wine, you'll see that they're also available in foods that haven't been prohibited by the Lord in the Word of Wisdom. So, while it would be nice if the health benefits of the Word of Wisdom were black and white, they're not. But few if any things in the Gospel are demonstrably trueâ€”if they were, there'd be no need for faith and we wouldn't really be free to make moral choices.

Consider, though, this quote by David O. McKay and this quote from Joseph Fielding Smith. While I, personally, won't drink decaffeinated coffee or tea, it seems the Lord hasn't given a hard rule about that.

I also agree with Ineffable that part of the rationale behind making the Word of Wisdom a commandment was "for the weakest". But I believe that it is also "n consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days" (D&C 89:4). We've definitely seen evidence from the tobacco and alcohol companies that they are striving to get people who don't use their products to start using them and to get people who already use their products to use more (I'm a capitalist, but I've got to admit, this is one of the evils of capitalismâ€”that and, if there's someone willing to buy it, there's someone willing to sell it). They add more nicotine or use highly effective advertising that targets minors, &c. I don't know whether coffee or tea companies do the same, but it seems there certainly are conspiracies out there for at least some of the prohibitions found in the Word of Wisdomâ€”just like the Lord said there would be.

MagicOPromotion · Post by **MagicOPromotion** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:36 pm

Weve put a lot of thought into what makes Word Mojo such a good game, but weve also been thinking a lot about what could make it better.

Join in the discussion and let us know what youd like to see in a possible future version of the game.

Nanti-SARRMM · Post by **Nanti-SARRMM** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:54 pm

Damasta, I'm just wondering; does Soy Coffee have oxalates, and tannins as well?

Yarjka · Post by **Yarjka** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:59 am

Damasta wrote:However, if you examine the Wikipedia articles on the beneficial substances found in tea, coffee, and red wine, you'll see that they're also available in foods that haven't been prohibited by the Lord in the Word of Wisdom.

Of course, if you examine the Wikipedia articles on the oxalates and tannins, you'll find that they, too, are present in many foods that are not prohibited in the Word of Wisdom.

Personally, I find the most important aspect of the Word of Wisdom to be the principle of moderation and the idea of overall good health. The main problem with coffee and tea that I see is that most people I know who drink it have a habit of drinking a cup or more a day. If someone had the habit of eating a bowl of ice cream a day, or eating a Snickers bar a day, and felt that they could not survive without it (as I've heard people say about their morning cup of coffee), then they would likewise be breaking the overarching principle of the Word of Wisdom, in my view. However, I see no problem with someone who occasionally enjoys a cup of coffee or tea as they would any other treat, such as hot cocoa. You would be hard-pressed to find nutritional value in many items found in the candy aisle at the store (although vitamins are being added more and more), but this doesn't mean they should never be eaten, just that they should be controlled. (The very real threat of addiction, though, especially with substances like alcohol and tobacco, should not be taken lightly, and it is certainly safer to never acquire a taste for such things).

Darth Fedora · Post by **Darth Fedora** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:20 am

I guess I just don't see why people are so worried about a couple little beneficial compounds in prohibited foods and drinks that we might be missing out on. Seriously, folks, let's get the basics down first. If you aren't exercising regularly, eating a healthy, balanced diet, and keeping your weight under control, a couple milligrams of flavonoids here and there aren't going to do you a darn bit of good.

Waldorf and Sauron · Post by **Waldorf and Sauron** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:58 pm

MagicOPromotion wrote:Weve put a lot of thought into what makes Word Mojo such a good game, but weve also been thinking a lot about what could make it better.

Join in the discussion and let us know what youd like to see in a possible future version of the game.

SPAMBOT

Yarjka · Post by **Yarjka** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:08 pm

Waldorf and Sauron wrote:
MagicOPromotion wrote:Weve put a lot of thought into what makes Word Mojo such a good game, but weve also been thinking a lot about what could make it better.

Join in the discussion and let us know what youd like to see in a possible future version of the game.
SPAMBOT

Spam is expressly prohibited by the Word of Wisdom, and has no place on this forum.

Damasta · Post by **Damasta** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:17 am

Sorry it's taken so long to respond. Nanti-SARMM asked:

Damasta, I'm just wondering; does Soy Coffee have oxalates, and tannins as well?

After a quick round of Google searches, I'm going to say, yes. It seems legumes in general (including soybean) are high in oxalates and tannins. But now I have to throw in the disclaimer that the Lord hasn't ever revealed why he's banned alcohol, tobacco, tea, or coffee (except the general reasons given in D&C 89:1-4). Many of the reasons given (i.e. "they're unhealthy", "they're habit-forming", "they have caffeine", "the hot liquid is damaging", &c.) are speculation, nothing more. So, in my opinion, Soy Coffee is okay.

It's also worth noting that different versions of the Word of Wisdom have been given. The Noachian Law prohibited consuming blood (Gen. 9:4). That's no longer required of us. The Levitical law prohibited pork (Lev. 11:7), shellfish (Lev. 11:10-12), gnats (Lev. 11:22-23), &c. (I only include the gnats because I've accidentally swallowed dozens of the little buggers in my lifetime). We're no longer held to that standard. However, in those times alcohol was not prohibited--Jesus himself drank it. But no alcohol, tobacco, tea, or coffee is the standard currently given to us and we're expected to conform to it.

To respond to Yarjka's suggestion that an infrequent (moderate) consumption of tea or coffee is okay,

You cannot neglect little things. "Oh, a cup of tea is such a little thing. It is so little; surely it doesn't amount to much; surely the Lord will forgive me if I drink a cup of teaâ€¦" if you drink coffee or tea, or take tobacco, are you letting a cup of tea or a little tobacco stand in the road and bar you from the celestial kingdom of God, where you might otherwise have received a fulness of glory? (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., edited by Bruce R. McConkie [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1954-1956], 2: 16)

The idea of moderation, as it appears in the Word of Wisdom ("prudence", v. 11), only refers to the substances the Lord recommends (grains, fruits, herbs, meat), not the ones he forbids. They are off limits, including tea and coffee. This is evident in the temple recommend interview where we are asked if we abstain from alcohol, tobacco, tea, coffee, and harmful drugs. There is no moderation in abstention. It is a complete and total refusal to ingest those substances. It's true that there are many substances available which, while not forbidden by the Lord, have little or no nutritional value and can be detrimental in large or small doses (a great example of this is Liquid Dran-O). In those cases, we're expected to use our judgment. But the Lord, through his prophets, has made it clear that alcohol, tobacco, tea, and coffee (and recreational drugs) are expressly prohibited. And I'm sorry, but calling them a "treat" doesn't change the fact that they're unacceptable fare for someone who intends to enter the temple.

Yarjka · Post by **Yarjka** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:26 pm

Damasta wrote:... the Lord, through his prophets, has made it clear that alcohol, tobacco, tea, and coffee (and recreational drugs) are expressly prohibited. And I'm sorry, but calling them a "treat" doesn't change the fact that they're unacceptable fare for someone who intends to enter the temple.

A single cup of coffee or tea once in a while is not a great threat to health. Nor is a glass of wine at mealtime, for that matter. However, obeying the words of the prophets and following God's commandments even when there seems to be no scientific reason to do so is part of demonstrating our faith, and that really should be a good enough reason.

It's quite easy to abstain from smoking after seeing images of blackened lungs ... it's much harder to find a reason to abstain from a cup of tea. Many people have posited various scientific reasons for why 'hot drinks' should be prohibited, but I'm yet to find a convincing argument. The history of the various quotes given by general authorities would exclude at times the consumption of meat, refined flour, and caffeinated beverages, while it would include at times beer and wine. They have been anything but consistent, making it difficult to say that "the Lord has made it clear." I find it hard to find a good explanation for why beer was okay while tea was not, but such was the case.

When I read the Word of Wisdom, I am amazed by its simplicity. God could have prohibited any number of substances that we are now finding out to be unhealthy; he could have given recipe recommendations and told us the best combination of grains and vegetables as a means of replacing meats. Instead, he focuses on the overall effect, giving a word of good advice and saying, essentially, "Be healthy, and I, the Lord, am pleased."

As far as the quote about not reaching the Celestial Kingdom if you drink a cup of tea ... I think that's referring more to the attitude of the person, not the effect of the tea itself. Someone who breaks the Word of Wisdom by drinking tea is not abiding by a law that they've agreed to, between themselves and God. Surely the Lord will forgive you if you drink a cup of tea. I have great faith in that. However, to reach the Celestial Kingdom you have to be willing to live by the law that God commands. We should certainly strive to obey the little things, but we should also not forget the big things, which I fear many people do in their zeal to keep the Word of Wisdom to the letter.

Damasta · Post by **Damasta** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:59 am

I'll agree that infrequent use of coffee, tea, or wine won't do you much harm. In fact, smoking one cigarette a month probably won't matter much, either (though the medical community no longer tries to ascribe any health benefits to it). Personally, I don't find it hard to abstain from tea: it smells bad (and I assume it tastes bad), it can stain your teeth, and the abundance of tannins can turn your digestive tract to leather (that's why they're called tannins). But the Lord didn't say the Word of Wisdom was strictly for health. The reasons He gives are:

1. For the benefit of the council of high priests (v. 1)
2. For the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days (v. 2)
3. To protect the weak (v. 3)
4. In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days (v. 4)

Some church leaders, including prophets and apostles, have included "health benefits" in #2. But I find no evidence (in the Scriptures or otherwise) that "health benefits" was the primary motivation for the Lord to reveal the Word of Wisdom. And I totally agree that there is no single datum which we can point to and declare, "See! That's why the Lord prohibited tea/coffee!" To be honest, I don't believe there ever will be (for the reasons stated above). Moving on, the Lord then lists several blessings for obeying the Word of Wisdom:

1. We receive health in our navels and marrow in our bones
2. We will find wisdom and great treasures of hidden knowledge
3. We shall run and not be weary and walk and not faint
4. The destroying angel will pass by us and not slay us

The Lord isn't saying that these are natural outcomes of 'his diet plan'. He's saying these are rewards for our obedience to his commands. So health is a blessing, not a consequence. He didn't give the commandment so that we would be healthy, he makes us healthy because we obey the commandment.

It's true that early Church leaders made statements about the Word of Wisdom which muddy the waters a bit (I'll even add another I've heard: chocolate). But, with the exception of caffeine, they all take place during the time when the Word of Wisdom was transitioning between "greeting; not by commandment or constraint" (v. 2) to the binding-commandment-required-for-baptism-and-full-fellowship-within-the-Church status it holds today. And while several modern leaders have warned against caffeine, there are plenty of statements that the Church has no official position on that one--it's just good advice. But since the Word of Wisdom was made a commandment, the leadership have been quite clear (I say it again) that alcoholic beverages (including beer), tobacco, tea, coffee, and harmful (recreational) drugs are prohibited.

I agree with you that that quote is about attitudes, not sins. Of course the Lord will forgive us for drinking tea. Or coffee. Or alcohol. Or smoking tobacco. Or pot. Or crack. But only if we repent. We can't do it 'just a little' and expect the Lord to overlook it (2 Ne. 28:8 ). We have to repent. We have to change that attitude. Here's the next paragraph of the quote:

Yes, he will forgive you, because he is going to forgive every man who repents; but my brethren if you drink coffee or tea, or take tobacco, are you letting a cup of tea or a little tobacco stand in the road and bar you from the Celestial Kingdom of God, where you might otherwise have received a fulness of glory?

"Oh, it is such a little thing, and the Lord will forgive us." Well, there is not anything that is little in the way of sinning. There is not anything that is little in the world in the aggregate. One cup of tea, then it is another cup of tea and another cup of tea, and when you get them all together, they are not so little. (italics mine)

I should've included this in my previous post. Without it the first part of the quote kind of makes it sound like drinking a cup of tea is an unforgivable sin. I should hope not! You're right that the Lord is very loving and forgiving. But we have to repent and turn away, first. And I like that you point out that in joining the Church we've made a covenant with the Lord to obey the Word of Wisdom. That is, I think, an essential point. Even if there never turn out to be any clear-cut benefits or detriments to our health--from any of the prohibited substances--we're still bound by our covenants to obey the Word of Wisdom. Having worked for two years in a cancer research lab on campus studying the effects of different foods on the incidence of cancer, I can say that there are compounds in tea, coffee, and red wine which have health benefits. But my need to obey the Lord and keep my covenants outweigh those benefits. So, again, thanks for observing that crucial point. As an aside, I'm glad to say that I've never met someone who adhered to the Word of Wisdom so literally that they would only eat wheat and avoided all other grains (v. 17).

One last thought, previous versions of the Word of Wisdom have faced the same difficulties in interpretation. For example, it is claimed that abstaining from pork saved the Israelites from Trichinosis and that abstaining from shellfish saved them from allergic reactions, heavy metal toxicity, and Hepatitis A. But what about some of other prohibitions? Are there any health benefits to abstaining from snakes, turtles, or rabbits? But if you look at these laws as having an added layer of meaning, you can learn some interesting things. The Noachian prohibition against eating blood taught the sanctity of life and emphasized the fragile nature of our Fallen, mortal existence. The Levitical Law taught many things. Eating animals which had a cloven hoof (Lev. 11:3) symbolized sure-footedness. Eating animals which chewed the cud (Lev. 11:3) reminded the Israelites to ruminate on the Gospel. Avoiding camels (v. 4) and rabbits (v. 5-6) warned the Israelites against immorality. Avoiding swine (v. 7) reminded the Israelites to eschew fair-weather spirituality (they only obey when they're hungry). Eating scaled fish (v. 9-12) reminded the Israelites to stick with mainstream, orthodox teachings and practices within the Church. Scavenger birds (v. 13-19) were a warning to the Israelites not to take advantage of their neighbor. And jumping insects (v. 21-22) reminded them that they needed to supercede/overcome the world.

I believe you can use the same approach with the current incarnation of the Word of Wisdom. Verses 5-9 show us that we should avoid things/activities which, while recreational and pleasurable, aren't necessary for life and well-being. Verses 10-11 to feast upon the word of Christ and offer up our praise continually. Verses 12-15 remind us to be self-sufficient, only relying on others for our sustenance when absolutely necessary. Verse 16 can suggest that we seek learning in things both temporal and eternal. And verse 17 can indicate that we should make the most of what the Lord has blessed us with and not bury our talents. I'm sure there are other (and probably better) ways to interpret this. But I thought I'd share my thoughts. However, this added layer of meaning doesn't exempt us from any of the specifics said therein; I only share it as an alternative to why the Lord gave the commandment since I don't believe it's primary function is as a health code.

Humor will not be tolerated!! -Portia