Check out this video, that was posted on a friend's facebook:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFIHdlqj ... r_embedded
Now here was my response:
Intensely isolationist. It strikes me as more than a little disingenuous to standing immigration law, which is largely considered oblique and unwieldy. It saddens me to see rhetoric triumph over what needs to be a frank and realistic discussion of a clearly broken system, but I suppose that is American politics at work.
Friend's husband's response to me:
[Marduk], it is clearly sad that you are so blatantly under-educated with our system of freedom, its purpose, and institution by the hand of Providence. Please, just come out of your liberal closet and let everyone know that you accepted your state-paid indoctrination of leftest and corrupt beliefs. With your comment above, I wouldn't be surprised to see you come out and defend gay marriage. Try reading a book or two that will actually *improve* your understanding of the incredibly amazing country you live in and the brilliant God-sent men that established it. You can start with the US Constitution itself (4 pages) and then use The 5,000 Year Leap to decode its already overly plain language into more comprehend-able principles for the ignorant.
Is it just me, or was that really, really uncalled for?
Ignorant people frustrate me...
Ignorant people frustrate me...
Deus ab veritas
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Giovanni Schwartz
- Posts: 3396
- Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:41 pm
I can't imagine saying such aggressive and condescending things to a person I barely know. Then, I can't imagine saying such things to someone I know really well. In conclusion, I can't imagine saying such things at all.
I especially dislike that he's not even attacking specific things or ideas you mentioned. He's just drawing wild conclusions and accusing you of being liberal. And, as everyone knows, liberals eat children. Apparently.
I especially dislike that he's not even attacking specific things or ideas you mentioned. He's just drawing wild conclusions and accusing you of being liberal. And, as everyone knows, liberals eat children. Apparently.
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UnluckyStuntman
- Posts: 282
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 10:08 am
- Contact:
We do, actually. I ate a baby this morning for breakfast. Delicious. Now I wonder how long it will take for my neighbors to realize their kid is missing...ahem. wrote:I can't imagine saying such aggressive and condescending things to a person I barely know. Then, I can't imagine saying such things to someone I know really well. In conclusion, I can't imagine saying such things at all.
I especially dislike that he's not even attacking specific things or ideas you mentioned. He's just drawing wild conclusions and accusing you of being liberal. And, as everyone knows, liberals eat children. Apparently.
The rest of the conversation:
Friend 3: Actually if you listen to the video he says that people should come into the country. He simply says follow the laws that have been established.
Me: Yes, come in this country, leave all traditions at the door, only speak English, and act exactly as everyone else. That is intensely isolationist. This is a great country precisely because most have not done that, and our traditions and culture have become an amalgamation of many different lands. Senator McClintock seems to be requesting we do the opposite.
Me: and [friend 2 (the husband)], that's not worth a response.
Friend 1 (the wife): From my extensive travel throughout the entire world and across this great nation (I have been nearly all of the states), I have found that the beauty of America is that Americans don't leave traditions at the door. But instead, embrace them and integrate them into every aspect of our American culture. But we do so honestly, upholding the laws and regulations upon which this great nation was founded. Britton makes a good point. His reading recommendations are worth following.
Me: Ok, I will give a response. I HAVE read both of those. I have read many other things as well, quite extensively. I would wager I tend to be better read than most people in this country, as well as most people in this area. I understand well the constitution, what it says, and what it does not say. Our immigration policies in this country are not based on constitutional principles; they are based on quotas. [Friend 1], Mclintock isn't simply asking that immigrants follow laws; he is asking that they become "American" by "assimilating". Assimilation: to absorb into the culture or mores of a population or group. I cannot be a Mexican-American according to his definition. I must forget all of my Mexican heritage in order to truly be American.
Friend 1: on that point we can disagree as to our understanding of what he is saying or as to what should be said. Please don't change from being a true Mexican-American. And if you honestly believe that having to actually forget your heritage makes you truly American than there's nothing that I can say to really change your mind. Although, I will just say that I disagree with you on that point, but I still feel that his point was well put and that it needs to be heard and understood.
Me: Hey [Friend 1], thanks for being calm and even-tempered. It is quite easy to get our tempers flared up and attack each other rather than try to have an honest discussion about things of a political nature. It makes me hopeful that you and I can disagree without being disagreeable, and without you attacking my intelligence or motives.
Friend 4: [Marduk] get it together. [Friend 2] is completely right. All the border states should be addopting this type of legislation and I think people should actually read the bill. I've read the bill and what I read was 10 pages long!!! Not like the liberal, marxist mostrosity of a health bill that is the 2000 page irresponsible piece of legislation. Just read the bill and the constitution that you say you are so familiar with. You'll see that this type of legislation is finally what we've needed and the federal government needs to wake up and adopt similar policies. Who cares about you claiming to be well read, you obvously don't get the fundamental priciples that were laid out by the founding fathers in the constitution. If you need another copy of the constitution, (and it looks like you do) go to askherritage.org. Have a good one bud
Friend 5: This saddens me that things can actually get this distorted. I therefore ask, is the same expected of Canadians? Perhaps of Britains or even Japanese. No is the real answer. Enjoy the rest of the discussion. Without me.
Friend 6: this law is for everyone who comes to the united states of america. everyone thinks this is some bak lash towards mexico. when its really not. he only reson why mexico is aprt of this is because hmmmmmmm what country is next to az? o yea its mexico and the other reason is because mexico is the only country that is complaining about these laws. we welcome people coming into our country. but just obey our laws. and to all those who have a problem about it, then move to az and vote.
Friend 2: It's basically real simple: If you want to live in America, then become an American. You want to be a socialist, move to Europe or Australia. You want to be a communist, move to North Korea. This is America and we want Americans here that understand our system of freedom. This is what is called sovereignty, and we intend to keep ours. It would be ... See Morecounter-intuitive to adapt our system to the whims of immigrants, which would then in turn destroy the original system of freedom that creates the attraction of bringing those immigrants here IN THE FIRST PLACE. Commonsense people! Commonsense!
Friend 4: Thank you [Friend 2]. That was well put. We offer citizenship to all those who legally go through the correct and LAWFULL process. I refer people to the statue of liberty and what it says at the base of that great symbolic statue. "
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me. ... See More
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
We encourage immigration. We encourage it!!! But legally. It has nothing to do with race, and yes rick, this law includes canadians, asians, and all other races. This country is great because of it's sovereingty. If we are not careful and if marxists like Obama keep getting their way by trampling the constitution, we will lose it. Just like no company is "too big to fail," this country is not "too big to fail." We must tediously and rigorously uphold the constitution and it's principles in order to keep this great nation.
For the record, I know friend one fairly well (she used to date my brother) and friend 2 fairly well (he used to be in my ward). The other people I don't know at all. This is what makes it impossible to have a legitimate discussion regarding anything of a political nature.
Friend 3: Actually if you listen to the video he says that people should come into the country. He simply says follow the laws that have been established.
Me: Yes, come in this country, leave all traditions at the door, only speak English, and act exactly as everyone else. That is intensely isolationist. This is a great country precisely because most have not done that, and our traditions and culture have become an amalgamation of many different lands. Senator McClintock seems to be requesting we do the opposite.
Me: and [friend 2 (the husband)], that's not worth a response.
Friend 1 (the wife): From my extensive travel throughout the entire world and across this great nation (I have been nearly all of the states), I have found that the beauty of America is that Americans don't leave traditions at the door. But instead, embrace them and integrate them into every aspect of our American culture. But we do so honestly, upholding the laws and regulations upon which this great nation was founded. Britton makes a good point. His reading recommendations are worth following.
Me: Ok, I will give a response. I HAVE read both of those. I have read many other things as well, quite extensively. I would wager I tend to be better read than most people in this country, as well as most people in this area. I understand well the constitution, what it says, and what it does not say. Our immigration policies in this country are not based on constitutional principles; they are based on quotas. [Friend 1], Mclintock isn't simply asking that immigrants follow laws; he is asking that they become "American" by "assimilating". Assimilation: to absorb into the culture or mores of a population or group. I cannot be a Mexican-American according to his definition. I must forget all of my Mexican heritage in order to truly be American.
Friend 1: on that point we can disagree as to our understanding of what he is saying or as to what should be said. Please don't change from being a true Mexican-American. And if you honestly believe that having to actually forget your heritage makes you truly American than there's nothing that I can say to really change your mind. Although, I will just say that I disagree with you on that point, but I still feel that his point was well put and that it needs to be heard and understood.
Me: Hey [Friend 1], thanks for being calm and even-tempered. It is quite easy to get our tempers flared up and attack each other rather than try to have an honest discussion about things of a political nature. It makes me hopeful that you and I can disagree without being disagreeable, and without you attacking my intelligence or motives.
Friend 4: [Marduk] get it together. [Friend 2] is completely right. All the border states should be addopting this type of legislation and I think people should actually read the bill. I've read the bill and what I read was 10 pages long!!! Not like the liberal, marxist mostrosity of a health bill that is the 2000 page irresponsible piece of legislation. Just read the bill and the constitution that you say you are so familiar with. You'll see that this type of legislation is finally what we've needed and the federal government needs to wake up and adopt similar policies. Who cares about you claiming to be well read, you obvously don't get the fundamental priciples that were laid out by the founding fathers in the constitution. If you need another copy of the constitution, (and it looks like you do) go to askherritage.org. Have a good one bud
Friend 5: This saddens me that things can actually get this distorted. I therefore ask, is the same expected of Canadians? Perhaps of Britains or even Japanese. No is the real answer. Enjoy the rest of the discussion. Without me.
Friend 6: this law is for everyone who comes to the united states of america. everyone thinks this is some bak lash towards mexico. when its really not. he only reson why mexico is aprt of this is because hmmmmmmm what country is next to az? o yea its mexico and the other reason is because mexico is the only country that is complaining about these laws. we welcome people coming into our country. but just obey our laws. and to all those who have a problem about it, then move to az and vote.
Friend 2: It's basically real simple: If you want to live in America, then become an American. You want to be a socialist, move to Europe or Australia. You want to be a communist, move to North Korea. This is America and we want Americans here that understand our system of freedom. This is what is called sovereignty, and we intend to keep ours. It would be ... See Morecounter-intuitive to adapt our system to the whims of immigrants, which would then in turn destroy the original system of freedom that creates the attraction of bringing those immigrants here IN THE FIRST PLACE. Commonsense people! Commonsense!
Friend 4: Thank you [Friend 2]. That was well put. We offer citizenship to all those who legally go through the correct and LAWFULL process. I refer people to the statue of liberty and what it says at the base of that great symbolic statue. "
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me. ... See More
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
We encourage immigration. We encourage it!!! But legally. It has nothing to do with race, and yes rick, this law includes canadians, asians, and all other races. This country is great because of it's sovereingty. If we are not careful and if marxists like Obama keep getting their way by trampling the constitution, we will lose it. Just like no company is "too big to fail," this country is not "too big to fail." We must tediously and rigorously uphold the constitution and it's principles in order to keep this great nation.
For the record, I know friend one fairly well (she used to date my brother) and friend 2 fairly well (he used to be in my ward). The other people I don't know at all. This is what makes it impossible to have a legitimate discussion regarding anything of a political nature.
Deus ab veritas
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Giovanni Schwartz
- Posts: 3396
- Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:41 pm
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Cognoscente
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:50 pm
- Location: Salt Lake Sizzle
- Contact:
Marduk, it is clearly sad that you are so blatantly under-educated about Lady Gaga, her purpose, and institution by the hand of Providence. Please, just come out of your lame closet and let everyone know that you accepted your stupid geek indoctrination of ignorant and corrupt music. With your comment above, I wouldn't be surprised to see you come out and defend Ke$ha. Try reading a celeb gossip magazine or two that will actually *improve* your understanding of the incredibly amazing singer Lady Gaga is and the brilliant God-sent talent that established it. You can start with Cosmo itself (40 pages) and then use Us Weekly to decode its already overly plain language into more comprehend-able principles for the ignorant. GAGA 4EVA!!!!!!11
Early to bed and early to rise
Precludes you from seeing the most brilliant starry nights
Precludes you from seeing the most brilliant starry nights
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Giovanni Schwartz
- Posts: 3396
- Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:41 pm
I was trying to pick a single sentence out of this to nominate you for the title bar with. And then I got one.Cognoscente wrote:Marduk, it is clearly sad that you are so blatantly under-educated about Lady Gaga, her purpose, and institution by the hand of Providence. Please, just come out of your lame closet and let everyone know that you accepted your stupid geek indoctrination of ignorant and corrupt music. With your comment above, I wouldn't be surprised to see you come out and defend Ke$ha. Try reading a celeb gossip magazine or two that will actually *improve* your understanding of the incredibly amazing singer Lady Gaga is and the brilliant God-sent talent that established it. You can start with Cosmo itself (40 pages) and then use Us Weekly to decode its already overly plain language into more comprehend-able principles for the ignorant. GAGA 4EVA!!!!!!11
Wow guys, just... .wow..... This is getting scary. I'm not even joking about this... This is what the next part of the conversation that posted today says....
Friend 7: Seriously... You would think *every* law-abiding citizen (note the word) would have an issue with ILLEGAL immigrants. Hello! Illegal, as in... yeah. Against the law. Why is this even a debate?
Friend 2: Um dudes, [Marduk] is a $%#ing self-avowed communist!! Looked it up on his profile. I thought I was talking to a liberal, but we have another Van Jones in our midst. WTF? I swear, if civil war ever breaks out because of these radicals, I'll literally hunt these @$$holes down, just like Captian Moroni in the Book of Mormon when he hunted down the King Men and slew their asses up. And I ain't joking one bit. I'm dead serious.
Friend 8: [Friend 2], I like your style.. reminds me of my well educated, yet no bull $h!t husband...
Friend 7: Seriously... You would think *every* law-abiding citizen (note the word) would have an issue with ILLEGAL immigrants. Hello! Illegal, as in... yeah. Against the law. Why is this even a debate?
Friend 2: Um dudes, [Marduk] is a $%#ing self-avowed communist!! Looked it up on his profile. I thought I was talking to a liberal, but we have another Van Jones in our midst. WTF? I swear, if civil war ever breaks out because of these radicals, I'll literally hunt these @$$holes down, just like Captian Moroni in the Book of Mormon when he hunted down the King Men and slew their asses up. And I ain't joking one bit. I'm dead serious.
Friend 8: [Friend 2], I like your style.. reminds me of my well educated, yet no bull $h!t husband...
Deus ab veritas
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UnluckyStuntman
- Posts: 282
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 10:08 am
- Contact:
Marduk, you have really crappy friends. Just sayin'. This should cheer you up though:
http://www.nataliedee.com/052510/the-sp ... to-man.jpg
http://www.nataliedee.com/052510/the-sp ... to-man.jpg
I can't hold my own in political arguments. Because I would say stuff like, "[Friend 2] is a girl's name!"
(It so is!)
Anyway, it's conservatives like this that give us a bad name. Especially pulling out the name of that certain talk show host. I just had to wince when I saw that.
I appreciate your patience and humor in dealing with the situation to them. Feel free to rant and complain all you want here! That's what we're here for.
(It so is!)
Anyway, it's conservatives like this that give us a bad name. Especially pulling out the name of that certain talk show host. I just had to wince when I saw that.
I appreciate your patience and humor in dealing with the situation to them. Feel free to rant and complain all you want here! That's what we're here for.
Oh man. I was up really late last night and a little punch-drunk as a result. When that comic came up in Google Reader, I giggled so much it scared the cats off the foot of my bed and they refused to come back.UnluckyStuntman wrote:Marduk, you have really crappy friends. Just sayin'. This should cheer you up though:
http://www.nataliedee.com/052510/the-sp ... to-man.jpg