Foundational Myths/epics/stories

[Tao]

Recent conversation has me thinking about root stories that underlay many of our modern expectations. For example; much of modern fantasy looks towards Lord of the Rings, which in turn draws heavily from the Nibelungenleid (and Beowulf for the Hobbit). Obviously much of Western culture's views on heroic journey can be traced to Homer's Iliad and Odyssey, and for the East looks toward the Ramayana and Mahabharata. The Bible is an obvious choice, and likely Le Morte d'Arthur.

I'm not so sure on things like Faust or The Divine Comedy. Shakespeare should be listed, but at the same time all too often feels derivative.

Thoughts? Arguments?

[Katya]

What about fairy tales?

[Tao]

Aye, those are definitely a large factor, albeit somewhat tougher to pin down. A modern "Cinderella story" may have its roots in any number of traditional ones, for example.

I guess what I'm looking for is a reading list along the lines of "here, read these 25 archaic stories and you'll have the foundation for 90% of fiction today".

Maybe it doesn't work quite like that, but at the moment it sure seems as if it could.

[Fredjikrang]

My creative writing teacher once told us that there are really only two stories, someone new comes to town, or someone leaves, and that some would argue that they are actually the same story. ;D

[Katya]

Aye, those are definitely a large factor, albeit somewhat tougher to pin down. A modern "Cinderella story" may have its roots in any number of traditional ones, for example.

Hmm. Well, I'd argue that the fact that so many cultures have Cinderella-esque stories is significant, but I think I see what you're looking for.

[Tao]

Aye, those are definitely a large factor, albeit somewhat tougher to pin down. A modern "Cinderella story" may have its roots in any number of traditional ones, for example.

Hmm. Well, I'd argue that the fact that so many cultures have Cinderella-esque stories is significant, but I think I see what you're looking for.

Very significant, and noted. I guess what I'm shooting for is a corpus of stories that are the most influential or most self-propagating. If we were to colonize another planet and drop of a limited number of Earth-stories as their mythos to draw from, what would you say would be the best stories to use as a foundation so that a thousand years later their fiction and ours wouldn't be that dissimilar?

Granted, the Human condition should help insure that. Maybe not the best hypothetical, but it might help get this convoluted idea across.

[Katya]

It's not exactly what you're looking for, but I think you'd be interested in reading the master's thesis of a friend of mine. Do you have access to a library that does out-of-state inter-library loan?

[Tao]

Aye, I'm still at the Y; if they don't have that capacity they should.

[Katya]

Aye, I'm still at the Y; if they don't have that capacity they should.

Oh, I didn't realize that. I thought you were in Idaho, for some reason.

Well then, that's even easier, because it's a BYU thesis. Go check out "Narrative Zoology : Peircean structure of grammatical plot." (Like I said, it's not exactly on the topic you're looking for, but if you think foundational myths are interesting, you'd probably find this interesting, as well.)

[Whistler]

Campbell's _The Hero With a Thousand Faces_ outlines the monomyth, as you probably know, and references a lot of mythology. And tarot cards!

I did a lot of thinking about the monomyth when I was writing my thesis. Basically, it looks like there is a modernist and post-modernist version of the hero's journey. In modernist literature (think _Ulysses_, or _Watt_), the hero is kind of stuck in one place, maybe in the demonic (oh, yeah, Northrop Frye has some interesting info about the demonic), and they don't even make it to the dragon battle, whereas the postmodern journey has the hero losing the dragon battle. ANYWAY. The classic hero's journey, in my mind, is exemplified by any Zelda game (and in OoT, you actually visit the belly of a whale).