Church History

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Craig Jessop
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Church History

Post by Craig Jessop »

http://theboard.byu.edu/questions/67051/

Church/Mormon history is kinda my thing. I've literally taken every class offered on Mormonism's history at BYU -- both in the Religion Department and History Department -- and I'm currently TA-ing the premier Mormon history course offered at BYU. I also do significant research for my professor, have helped him on the Joseph Smith Papers project, and have written several papers on Mormon history that have received significant praise. I'm currently working on a submission to the Mormon History Association. In short, I know what I'm talking about, and not just because I've taken Susan Easton Black's class, served a mission, and dabble in Mormon books because it's interesting. It's because Mormon history is LITERALLY my life. Okay, so I haven't read Wilford Woodruff's complete diary, but I have used it as a significant source in several papers, and I have handled and transcribed previously unpublished primary documents relating to Mormon history. (It was legit, by the way.)

So I figured I'd offer my two cents on the matter to the person who asked this question; I know a comment would probably be rejected because the "writers already adequately answered the question." Fair enough, I'm not a writer, and the answers were adequate to what the asker probably wanted. Buuuut this is kinda my pet subject, so here goes :)

Gimgimno

First, I COMPLETELY agree that Sunday School isn't the place for talking about the warts in our history. Do I think that the CES should do a better job of covering them? Of course, but CES is a bureaucracy that has its own agenda (which it likes to pass off as God's Pure Truth, but I won't get into that here). But Sunday services are for building faith, not academic exploration. Sometimes when I'm teaching I use some of my history background to contextualize a quote or story in a way that the manual writers would probably hate, but real discussion of the historiography of the Utah War is completely unnecessary in a lesson on how God sustains his people during trials.

I disagreed with Gimgimno's recommendation that the asker go to the FAIR wiki. Sure, it's useful, but it comes across with a sort of pleading and defensiveness that is really unnecessary. Most Mormon scholars wouldn't be caught dead there. Richard Bushman himself, who gave a speech at their annual conference a few years ago, told them how much he hated apologetics. To their faces! At their annual conference! And this is from dear, faithful Brother Bushman who is one of the gentlest, kindest men you will ever meet.

Rough Stone Rolling is a bit dense. It has great stuff in it, but Bushman isn't the strongest writer in the world. It's tough to get through, and that's coming from the kid who has read piles and piles of books and articles on the subject. His scholarship is amazing! But if the question asker wants a brief introduction to these sorts of issues, I wouldn't recommend it. If Bushman is really what you want, go with A Very Brief Introduction: Mormonism. It's a quick, light, easy read that covers the Church pretty fairly and skims the surface of controversial issues (Book of Abraham, polygamy, Mountain Meadows, etc) engagingly. It also has a recommended reading list at the back.

P.D. Kirke

I think that the recommendation of The Mormon Experience was spot on. That's the book used as an introductory text in BYU's history department (where they teach REAL history), and it's completely fantastic. Arrington and Bitton really did a good job on it.

However, I would recommend The Story of the Latter-day Saints instead. It was written for people exactly like the person who asked the question: faithful members who want an introduction into real history, not the stuff of CES. It was quashed by Elder Benson because he thought it didn't portray the leaders in the best light; for instance, it talks about the Word of Wisdom in context of the times, especially the temperance movements of the era. (For instance, did you know that the Kirtland Distillery was purchased and shut down TWO WEEKS before the Word of Wisdom was given? And that it was shut down by members of the Kirtland Temperance Society, which included members with the last names Lyman, Morley, and Coe? Yeah... tell me that Joseph wasn't influenced by that when he asked God about alcohol and tobacco. Puh-lease. Anyway, the origins of the "Emma was sick of scrubbing tobacco" story are spurious in my opinion.) Anyway, The Story of the Latter-day Saints is written to explain the history as history to Mormons of a faithful background.

I thought the recommendation of American Moses was random, though. Arrington's stuff isn't really the most up to date, and his contribution to the historiography is important, but not the best thing ever. And Brigham Young? Random.

To the Question Asker

If you really want to go down this road, your testimony will be necessarily shattered. The things in Church history you learned in seminary, institute, at BYU, and in Sunday School are incomplete. Once you get exposure to a more accurate representation of what really happened, what you think about the Gospel, the Church, and its early and present leaders will change. You will feel like your house is being swept off the sand, and that is exactly what is happening.

However, once that happens you will able to choose to rebuild on the Rock Himself -- Jesus Christ. Many don't do that, become cynical, and throw the baby out with the bathwater. They might stay engaged in the Church for cultural and social reasons, but they don't engage themselves in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. There is a difference. You will have to choose. You will have to be okay with the fact that men are fallible, and that includes the prophets. But you will also have to be okay with the fact that God chooses fallible men to do His work, and that you must sustain them anyway.

So let your testimony be shattered. Question what you thought you knew. But then have the humility to let God take those pieces and build them into something stronger, and do the maintenance needed to keep it that way. I promise it's worth it.
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Re: Church History

Post by wired »

(I originally posted this as a separate thread, but I think Craig must have been working on his at the same time as mine.)

1. To supplement the answer, The Mormon People by Matt Bowman (http://www.amazon.com/The-Mormon-People ... 0679644903) is a fantastic book that covers Church history from 1805-to present day. Quick read, very professional and academic. I thought it did a good job of a "warts and all" approach to the Church.

2. Agree and disagree with Gimgimno. Agree that general membership of the Church sweeps things under the rugs, but I think a lot of that is simply not knowing and simultaneously avoiding things that seem shaky to us. I think that's a fine approach for some. I don't agree that general church membership does it more than Church leadership, but agree again that RS/EQ is not really the place to focus on those aspects of our history.

Really, I just think there's a lot of grey area and ambiguity in the early Church that is hard to grapple with. I don't know that Church leadership has a great answer to it and I think without a great answer or a revealed answer, it's best to just officially shrug and say, "We don't know."
Craig Jessop
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Re: Church History

Post by Craig Jessop »

wired wrote:(I originally posted this as a separate thread, but I think Craig must have been working on his at the same time as mine.)

1. To supplement the answer, The Mormon People by Matt Bowman (http://www.amazon.com/The-Mormon-People ... 0679644903) is a fantastic book that covers Church history from 1805-to present day. Quick read, very professional and academic. I thought it did a good job of a "warts and all" approach to the Church.
I've been meaning to read this! I'm waiting for it to be available cheaply or at the library. I've heard nothing but good about it, though. And Matt Bowman is a great up and coming scholar.
Katya
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Re: Church History

Post by Katya »

Craig and wired, do you think it's important that everyone in the Church have some understanding of our "warts-and-all" history or is it OK if most people only know the CES/Sunday School version?
C is for
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Re: Church History

Post by C is for »

craig wrote:CES is a bureaucracy that has its own agenda (which it likes to pass off as God's Pure Truth, but I won't get into that here).
Hooray, I just started a career with CES!
wired
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Re: Church History

Post by wired »

Katya wrote:Craig and wired, do you think it's important that everyone in the Church have some understanding of our "warts-and-all" history or is it OK if most people only know the CES/Sunday School version?
Personally I think it's fine to skip out on knowing the warts and have the Sunday School version.* I think that conversion is about living the gospel of Jesus Christ, having a testimony of Him, and having a testimony that the Church helps to accomplish those things through priesthood authority. I think Sunday School lessons as they appear in the manuals are geared to that for the most part. I don't think knowing about the intricacies of polygamy really aids in that.

That being said, I always worry that people will be exposed to those issues in environments not friendly to the Church and will feel a little shaken up about it. I don't think Sunday School is the right place to address it, but I think it can be useful (and spiritually edifying) to talk about it amongst those who are friendly toward the church. When my children get older (teenage years, going into college) I hope I'll have a good way to address it with them.

*I think Craig and I have somewhat similar views to CES, as opposed to Sunday School. I love CES teachers and think they're absolutely fabulous for the most part, but I recognize that CES itself has been influenced by the most theologically conservative parts of the Church and so I have disagreements with their approaches on some things. For the most part, I think CES lessons tend to be more conservative than Sunday School/EQ lessons and I disagree with many CES instructors on those issues. Also, congrats C! I think being in CES would be incredibly rewarding and I know that it can be competitive to get a spot in CES. Please don't take any of my personal differences with the median CES instructor's view of Mormonism with you or any CES instructor personally.
Katya
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Re: Church History

Post by Katya »

wired wrote:That being said, I always worry that people will be exposed to those issues in environments not friendly to the Church and will feel a little shaken up about it. I don't think Sunday School is the right place to address it, but I think it can be useful (and spiritually edifying) to talk about it amongst those who are friendly toward the church. When my children get older (teenage years, going into college) I hope I'll have a good way to address it with them.
Now I'm picturing a PSA about talking to your kids about polygamy and seerstones. ;)
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Re: Church History

Post by wired »

haha I guess you might say I'm for abstinence-only teaching in Sunday School, with more frank discussions at home.
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Re: Church History

Post by Yarjka »

Craig Jessop wrote:Many don't do that, become cynical, and throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Or they discover the baby drowned in the bathwater a long time ago and now it's time to get the heck out of the tub. (Just giving an example of how cynical one can become).
Craig Jessop
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Re: Church History

Post by Craig Jessop »

wired wrote: *I think Craig and I have somewhat similar views to CES, as opposed to Sunday School. I love CES teachers and think they're absolutely fabulous for the most part, but I recognize that CES itself has been influenced by the most theologically conservative parts of the Church and so I have disagreements with their approaches on some things. For the most part, I think CES lessons tend to be more conservative than Sunday School/EQ lessons and I disagree with many CES instructors on those issues. Also, congrats C! I think being in CES would be incredibly rewarding and I know that it can be competitive to get a spot in CES. Please don't take any of my personal differences with the median CES instructor's view of Mormonism with you or any CES instructor personally.
Ditto to everything in that, especially the part about C! Congrats gurrrrrrl!
Katya wrote:Craig and wired, do you think it's important that everyone in the Church have some understanding of our "warts-and-all" history or is it OK if most people only know the CES/Sunday School version?
I think that members of the Church should be aware that there are warts in our history. I don't think that the average member needs to be appraised of their details or anything, but acknowledging they exist (especially in CES) would go a long way. That way, when a member inevitable encounters something that troubles him or her, they would have a coping mechanism: "oh, I don't understand this, but I understand that the Church isn't perfect," instead of "WHAT?!?!?! That can't be true, let me bury my head in the sand," or "WHAT?!?!?!?! The baby drowned in the bathwater a long time ago! I'm out!"

I also think that Mormon apologists should be able to say, "yes, the Church is imperfect," rather than perform mental gymnastics to justify something. Saying "Joseph Smith married a 14 year old girl, and we don't understand why. However, I believe that he is a prophet, and this in no way invalidates revelations given him. If there was any impropriety, I trust God to judge him," instead of judging him the same way our detractors do would be so, so much better... in my opinion.
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Re: Church History

Post by Gimgimno »

I was actually talking about stuff relating to this answer with a good friend of mine the other day.

I knew that I'd get some lashback for recommending FAIR, and I know that it's largely deserved. LDS apology is not my favorite thing, but let me just say, not all apologetics are equal. For someone who is horrified of the possibility of what's in the cellar, I stand by my opinion that it's a decent introduction into what they're getting themselves into. If they hate the way they're feeling and not liking what they're finding among apologetic literature, they should probably investigate other possibilities of becoming more informed. That might be diving into deeper theology rather than history, which is an altogether different journey that is, in my opinion, just as interesting but obviously a little less earth-shattering when you encounter something strange or unfamiliar.

I generally agree with everything that's being said about CES and things. One thing that has always frustrated me is the fact that we are never really able to get a good grasp of a prophet's tenure and decisions and hard times because what we're presented with is so segmented and (honestly) censored. I said that Sunday School and Priesthood/Relief Society meetings weren't the place to discuss "dodgy" or "questionable" elements of our past, but I don't think it is damaging to talk about what it was like leading up to the Manifesto in 1890 when half of the apostles in the Church were in jail and the political pressure that the Church was feeling was suffocating. I think we're all shorted when we don't talk about the fact that God's church (which I believe we are a part of) has almost gone to the crapper many times. Isn't it encouraging at the end of the day to know that we're still around? Instead we get this very conservative, selective view of our history that doesn't grant us the perspective into the administrations of the prophets of our dispensation, nor the perspective on what our ancestors after the migration to the Salt Lake Valley had to endure.

I mean, part of the reason that the Old Testament is so cool is the fact that we see the good, the bad, and the ugly of so many legitimately good men. Yet, in spite of their shortcomings, we ultimately acknowledge the fact that they were Lord's anointed. The culture of the Old Testament and the culture of the early Church aren't completely comparable, but I think making a general comparison is fair. If we're able to reconcile the shortcomings of the prophets of old (when the shortcomings were pretty huge in some cases), why are we kept from viewing the shortcomings of some of our modern leaders?

Anyway. That's all just a sidetrack. The realm of church history is pretty daunting, and at times dark and disappointing, but you know what? I can't think of a single major world religion that doesn't have some degree of that in its history. You would hope that the Lord's church would be completely free of that, but it isn't. I think as a whole that personal righteousness among the Brethren has improved very significantly over the course of the last 150 years or so, but I still don't think there are many leaders of the Church past or present that I wouldn't have at least enjoyed drinking a Dr Pepper with.

I'm just rambling now. Hopefully I said something coherent in there.
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Re: Church History

Post by Dragon Lady »

Gimgimno wrote:I mean, part of the reason that the Old Testament is so cool is the fact that we see the good, the bad, and the ugly of so many legitimately good men. Yet, in spite of their shortcomings, we ultimately acknowledge the fact that they were Lord's anointed. The culture of the Old Testament and the culture of the early Church aren't completely comparable, but I think making a general comparison is fair. If we're able to reconcile the shortcomings of the prophets of old (when the shortcomings were pretty huge in some cases), why are we kept from viewing the shortcomings of some of our modern leaders
Just out of curiosity, what are some of the shortcomings you speak of? (And I don't ask in an "I'm offended and don't believe you! Bring it on so I can prove you wrong!" sort of way. I'm reading the OT again right now and reading it in a completely different light than I did at school. So really, I'm just asking out of curiosity.)
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Re: Church History

Post by Fredjikrang »

I was actually thinking about this the other day. There are very few OT prophet/leaders that didn't fall to, or at least struggle with, iniquity.

For example:
Wise King Solomon started worshiping idols toward the end of his life.
King Saul tried to kill David because of jealousy.
David and Bathsheba.
Adam ate the fruit.

And there are a lot more. (And these are just leaders. If you start talking about the people in general, the examples become amazingly prolific.)
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Re: Church History

Post by Yarjka »

Fredjikrang wrote:I was actually thinking about this the other day. There are very few OT prophet/leaders that didn't fall to, or at least struggle with, iniquity.

For example:
Wise King Solomon started worshiping idols toward the end of his life.
King Saul tried to kill David because of jealousy.
David and Bathsheba.
Adam ate the fruit.

And there are a lot more. (And these are just leaders. If you start talking about the people in general, the examples become amazingly prolific.)
This is a pretty good article about understanding old testament prophets in general, but I this passage is perhaps pertinent to this discussion:
The Old Testament not only expresses the diversity among the prophets, but it also shows many of the prophets' personal weaknesses. Rather than attempting to embellish competence and boost the people's confidence in a leader by hiding personal imperfections, the Hebrews openly recognized their leaders as mortal. Johnson described this phenomenon in the following words: "Jewish writers and sages, fighting against the strong tendency in antiquity to deify founder-figures, often went out of their way to stress the human weaknesses and failings." A good example of this phenomenon is the occasional portrayal of Moses as bewildered, confused, angry, and sometimes doubting." (italics in original)
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Re: Church History

Post by Portia »

I've always enjoyed studying history general, and American history and the history of the Western frontier in general, so I was bound to pick up a lot about Mormon history no matter what.

I take a great pride in my strange, messy, politically-incorrect heritage, replete with adulterers, outlaws, cholera-beaters, single mothers, divorcees, printers, self-proclaimed prophets, and normal people. I would be rather annoyed if my hypothetical descendants whitewashed what I was like, although of course should I pen my memoirs I will probably try to present myself in the best possible light. I'm glad that my family history isn't only of the "faith-promoting" (ugh, how I hate that Orwellian term) variety: life needs color, and it helps me understand myself and the people around me.

My faith in the supernatural claims of the LDS Church (or Catholic, or Jewish, or Buddhist, or Atheist not-Religion) was never affected one way or another by the history, and I certainly was never under any sanguine impressions of perfection and accordance with modern-day mores. Maybe the fact that I myself don't really hold sexual monogamy (to take an example) to be the sacred cow it is in modern-day Western culture means that I don't feel horrified by what long-dead dudes and ladies decided to do behind closed doors? If I have any umbrage with the Church, I can assure the CES that it's due to current practices and not any unsavory doings of dead people. I think whitewashing is insulting to one's intelligence, and I never understood the need to take a literary text and fashion a tidy little moral from it, ala "What did we learn from the show tonight, Craig?" Mormon studies can be free of judgment one way or another, and is fascinating, important to any living American (ahem, look at the presidential race, cough cough), and has an important place in 19th-century Utopian movements in general.

My BYU classes were much superior to church classes in that regard, and I never felt that the professors were trying to bs us to burnish an image or something.
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