"Wear Pants to Church Day"

[Sparklebreeze]

I remember there being a thread somewhat related to this topic a while back, but I don't have time to look for it now. Sorry!

Have you guys seen this event on facebook? What are your thoughts?

Although I personally like wearing skirts and dresses, I don't think women should be forced to wear them. That being said, I think the event and the hype are silly.

It's sensationalist comments like this one that irk me most:

"There are young women who cut themselves, and all we care about is if they're wearing a skirt to church.
There are single mothers struggling to raise their kids, and all we care about is if they wear a skirt to church.
There are women who are getting abused by their husbands, and all we care about is if they wear a skirt to church.
We've got a problem here, people. Speak up December 16 by not wearing a skirt to church just for them! Show your support for all our struggling sisters everywhere, those who attend and those who've left because the struggle was just too much."

Maybe I've just been lucky to attend non-judgmental wards my whole life, but I just really don't think that "all we care about" is whether or not the women are in skirts. If it truly were, I would be more concerned.

[Giovanni Schwartz]

I will support this activity by wearing pants to church that day.

[mic0]

Although I personally like wearing skirts and dresses, I don't think women should be forced to wear them. ...
Maybe I've just been lucky to attend non-judgmental wards my whole life, but I just really don't think that "all we care about" is whether or not the women are in skirts. If it truly were, I would be more concerned.

I've never heard of this, but then I've also never heard of women being "forced" to wear skirts/dresses. This may be because I was also not in judgmental wards growing up? I suppose at BYU wearing pants would be grounds for a LOT of weird looks, but I don't think in my home ward in Texas anyone would care for more than about .02 seconds.

[wired]

"There are young women who cut themselves, and all we care about is if they're wearing a skirt to church.
There are single mothers struggling to raise their kids, and all we care about is if they wear a skirt to church.
There are women who are getting abused by their husbands, and all we care about is if they wear a skirt to church.
We've got a problem here, people. Speak up December 16 by not wearing a skirt to church just for them! Show your support for all our struggling sisters everywhere, those who attend and those who've left because the struggle was just too much."

I have never met a single church leader who would say that any potential pants-wearing problem (if he or she even considered a problem) would outweigh any of those issues. Sensational indeed.

Now, I am sure some local church leaders (and prominent ones at times) have emphasized wearing traditional Sunday dress and that pant-suits or nice woman pants (funny phrase alert, but I have no idea what to call them otherwise....) don't really fit this mold. But those comments are clearly never meant to subjugate women or imply that it's a first-order issue in the Church.

[Marduk]

I'd like to see a men's "wear skirts to church" day.

[wired]

[bobtheenchantedone]

So I was at a funeral last Tuesday, and I walked my family out to their car. My mom said something about wanting to go home and change into pants, and I was like, "I'm already wearing comfortable pants!" and waved my slacks-wearing legs around. My mom replied with, "Yes, well, I thought I brought all of you up properly to only wear skirts or dresses when you're in a chapel." I told her that the problem with that idea was the fact that those slacks were actually the nicest leg-covering garment I had once winter hit. (Actually, at first I responded with just "no," but realized that that was kinda rude.)

Long story short, I occasionally wear pants to church and other dressy occasions because a) I have a pair of nice slacks and b) since I wear a skirt every single day, to wear slacks feels more like dressing up than skirts do.

[Marduk]

So apparently you're forcing an amendment that says "wear skirts to church day that isn't part of a specific cultural heritage."

[Laser Jock]

It's sensationalist comments like this one that irk me most:

"There are young women who cut themselves, and all we care about is if they're wearing a skirt to church.
There are single mothers struggling to raise their kids, and all we care about is if they wear a skirt to church.
There are women who are getting abused by their husbands, and all we care about is if they wear a skirt to church.
We've got a problem here, people. Speak up December 16 by not wearing a skirt to church just for them! Show your support for all our struggling sisters everywhere, those who attend and those who've left because the struggle was just too much."

Haha. That irks me too, but I read the first three statements exactly backwards from what they meant (I had to re-read them when I got to the last one); the way I read it, it sounded like they were saying "Look, people have all these major issues, and all you're doing is caring about if they wear skirts by starting this Facebook event? Shouldn't you be focusing on the issues instead of encouraging people to wear pants?"

If they'd actually been saying that, that would still have irked me, because hey, false dichotomy. No one says you can't work on big issues at the same time as little ones. The way they actually meant it is also annoying.

But anyway, I think it's funny that the same ridiculous argument can be read to support either side.

[NerdGirl]

No offense to any of you, but if you think that's a sensationalist comment, then I would say you have been very lucky with the kinds of wards you have been in. I don't think this event is silly at all. It's a symbolic way of bringing attention to some very serious issues.

[TheAnswerIs42]

The funny thing is, it isn't even in the handbook anymore (if it ever was). A new member started coming to my mom's ward (she's in the RS Presidency), and was wearing pants every week. My mom started worrying about if she should say anything or let it go, but when she looked it up in the handbook, nothing mentioned skirts at all. I don't remember the phrase, but it was closer to "wear appropriate and respectful attire" or something. So she said she laughed and was glad she didn't have to worry about the correcting her.

Honestly, I wear a skirt to church because I would feel uncomfortable not following the norm. That's my personality. I once tried to wear a stylish hat (it was an atrocious hair day) and felt very odd the whole time. Of course no one said anything, and I have no idea if they were looking at me and thinking anything in particular, but . . . I'm not the type to go against the grain that way. More power to those that are, if that's your thing.

And Nerdgirl, I think I would like more explanation, since this seems to make sense to you. To me, the statement would be "women are struggling with ___ and all you notice is if they wear a skirt to church". That would be occasionally accurate. I haven't known many people who wouldn't care about someone's struggles, but they aren't as easy to see as the clothing we wear (which, no matter how much we complain, says something about us and how we are perceived or want to be perceived). How is wearing pants to church going to help those that are struggling? I'm not sure what the goal is here. Single mothers who are struggling to make ends meet and women who wear pants to church have no correlation in my mind.

[krebscout]

Nobody in my ward would notice. There are regularly tank tops, jeans, cleavage, poofy hats, and all sorts of unorthodox attire in my ward. But my ward is a very interesting mix of well-to-do, wealthy older types and struggling-in-every-possible-way converts who so sincerely love to be at church. This is one reason why I love my ward.

[Portia]

I want to see more decorum and dressier dress standards in society in general. Skirts and dresses = more formal than slacks. I want to see guys in ties, well-tailored suits, and collared shirts with no buttons on the corners, too. And combed hair. And shaved faces or well-maintained scruff. And girls in pantyhose. And I want to see this at work and on campus.

[krebscout]

What is the purpose of pantyhose? To make legs look more tan?

[Digit]

Nobody in my ward would notice. There are regularly tank tops, jeans, cleavage, poofy hats, and all sorts of unorthodox attire in my ward. But my ward is a very interesting mix of well-to-do, wealthy older types and struggling-in-every-possible-way converts who so sincerely love to be at church. This is one reason why I love my ward.

I can't believe the last picture in the Wikipedia article on cleavage enhancement is a man.

As in wow! more than I don't really believe that!

[Katya]

That being said, I think the event and the hype are silly.

It's sensationalist comments like this one that irk me most:

"There are young women who cut themselves, and all we care about is if they're wearing a skirt to church.
There are single mothers struggling to raise their kids, and all we care about is if they wear a skirt to church.
There are women who are getting abused by their husbands, and all we care about is if they wear a skirt to church.
We've got a problem here, people. Speak up December 16 by not wearing a skirt to church just for them! Show your support for all our struggling sisters everywhere, those who attend and those who've left because the struggle was just too much."

Do you understand the underlying issues this (possibly hyperbolic) comment is trying to highlight? Have you read some of the other, less "sensationalist" comments in support of the event? What did you think about problems and issues they brought up?

Maybe I've just been lucky to attend non-judgmental wards my whole life, but I just really don't think that "all we care about" is whether or not the women are in skirts. If it truly were, I would be more concerned.

Have you read some of the comments being posted that oppose the event? Are you concerned about the attitudes on display in those comments? Do you know that your wards have been non-judgmental regarding dress because you, yourself went against the norms of dress standards or do you just assume that your wards have been non-judgmental based on other factors?

[C is for]

What is the purpose of pantyhose? To make legs look more tan?

What I like about pantyhose is it evens the skin tone on my legs. Kind of like foundation I guess. Also it makes it a lot less obvious when I haven't shaved in a few days. Also I just like the look of black nylons.

This from a girl that has worn some sort of stocking every day for the past two months, so I'm naturally inclined not to mind them.

[bobtheenchantedone]

Skirts and dresses = more formal than slacks.

Why?

[wired]

Skirts and dresses = more formal than slacks.

Why?

What is or isn't formal almost always depends on tradition and custom in a specific culture. (In my opinion, it's almost impossible to prescribe, rather than describe, what is formal.) So it is more formal because society at large believes as a matter of custom and tradition that it is more formal. If enough people reject that, eventually they would no longer be more formal. (I'm sure there's something here that has to do with linguistic drift that Katya could comment about.) But until enough people reject that approach, it will remain "more formal" to wear a skirt or dress. So if someone is trying to make a decision based on whether they should dress "formally," they should look at society's definition. If they want to try to change society's definition of formal, they can violate formal rules in hopes of having those rules set aside.

EDIT: Noticed that I used "they" as a singular, non-gender pronoun -- a convention that does not work largely because American linguistic custom is to disregard that as proper English. Alas, I'll leave it in hopes that by using it I will contribute to its broader acceptance and eventual inclusion in "proper English."

[UffishThought]

EDIT: Noticed that I used "they" as a singular, non-gender pronoun -- a convention that does not work largely because American linguistic custom is to disregard that as proper English. Alas, I'll leave it in hopes that by using it I will contribute to its broader acceptance and eventual inclusion in "proper English."

Ha! As Genuine Article would say, "amen, sister suffragette!" I know it's one of those things I should care about, as an English teacher, but we need a singular non-gender pronoun, and "they" works just fine for me.