Tactfulness and job interviews and legal grey areas

[krebscout]

Sauron and I have been interviewing for Apartment Management positions lately. We've been asked "How old are your kids?" more than once. This is a seemingly innocent question, but it's also not legal, and we have in fact been "discriminated" against for having young children. Because of our situation, we're pretty familiar with some of those laws. Also in our interviews, we have been specifically told, "Weed out people who have young kids, we don't want them living on the second floor, or anybody else that you don't think would be a ... good fit. But treat everyone the same."

Two questions:

When asked about the age of our kids, is there a tactful way to dodge the question? All we've got so far is something like, "I know not to ask that question to potential tenants," but that just sounds self-righteous.

And secondly, I doubt that there's any property management company that doesn't discriminate to some degree, but dare we involve ourselves with employers like that, and who are so brazen about it as to declare it in the first interview?

[thatonemom]

That's so tough.

About the ages of your kids, I would probably say something about them being old enough that they won't get in the way of your responsibilities as a manger. (assuming that's true) Then the interviewer is either stuck clarifying what it is about kids' ages that they're worried about, or they have to move on.

It seems like housing discrimination is incredibly common. But I'd be a little leery of getting involved with all of that. Would you lose the job or get evicted if you rented to someone the management company didn't like? Or if you "weeded out" certain people, what kind of liability would you have if someone sued? That's probably pretty unlikely, but who knows?

[nymofanym]

To be fair, whether or not you have kids and how old they are are not protected categories - meaning that they can choose not to hire you based on those facts without breaking any laws whatsoever. Also, depending on your state, it may very well be legal for them to deny people apartments based on the ages of the children, in the interest of preserving their property.

Your best bet is probably to look at apartment complexes that are small child friendly. Good luck with that.

[Katya]

To be fair, whether or not you have kids and how old they are are not protected categories - meaning that they can choose not to hire you based on those facts without breaking any laws whatsoever.

I thought that "familial status" was a protected class: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class

[Katya]

When asked about the age of our kids, is there a tactful way to dodge the question? All we've got so far is something like, "I know not to ask that question to potential tenants," but that just sounds self-righteous.

Can you throw the question back at them by asking something like "What are your concerns?" or "Do you have concerns about renting to someone with children?" That way, they have to explain why they're asking the question and you can allay their fears (without directly answering the question).

[krebscout]

To be fair, whether or not you have kids and how old they are are not protected categories - meaning that they can choose not to hire you based on those facts without breaking any laws whatsoever. Also, depending on your state, it may very well be legal for them to deny people apartments based on the ages of the children, in the interest of preserving their property.

Your best bet is probably to look at apartment complexes that are small child friendly. Good luck with that.

We researched it, I promise. We wouldn't live where we live if we didn't.

[krebscout]

About the ages of your kids, I would probably say something about them being old enough that they won't get in the way of your responsibilities as a manger. (assuming that's true) Then the interviewer is either stuck clarifying what it is about kids' ages that they're worried about, or they have to move on.

Can you throw the question back at them by asking something like "What are your concerns?" or "Do you have concerns about renting to someone with children?" That way, they have to explain why they're asking the question and you can allay their fears (without directly answering the question).

These are both great ideas! Thank you!

[thatonemom]

They actually are. The Fair Housing Act is pretty specific about it. This is their page about family status discrimination, if anyone was curious.

And now I see that was already posted, but am too lazy to delete. It's an interesting website about all the types of housing discrimination, anyway.

[Marduk]

Related question based on that: so, it is illegal to discriminate to someone in terms of specifying housing based on sex, right? So how does BYU housing get away with it?

[Tally M.]

Foreman, in this Board question, mentions that it's because BYU is a private university.

BYU can do a lot of things by being a private university, and housing regulations are one of those things. State-owned universities have no control over living arrangements off-campus.

Other relevant Board questions:

Board Question #27840
Board Question #55044

[Katya]

Related question based on that: so, it is illegal to discriminate to someone in terms of specifying housing based on sex, right? So how does BYU housing get away with it?

There was a lawsuit about it, but they lost because there's a clause in the Civil Rights Act that allows universities to segregate students by sex. Sources: http://byublog.blogspot.com/2005/09/byu ... -1995.html , http://www.deseretnews.com/article/5206 ... tml?pg=all

[nymofanym]

For housing, I guess it is illegal discrimination. For employment, it most certainly isn't. krebscout is seeking employment.

[thatonemom]

This piques my interest... I'll look into family status discrimination and employment because now I want to know.

Pregnancy is definitely a protected thing, though. You can read more than you probably care to know about Pregnancy Discrimination on the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission website.

Also, turns out I posted a different link than Katya, up a few posts.

[Marduk]

Well, but the majority of "BYU housing" is not owned by BYU. All the folks like Carriage Cove, Crestwood, Branbury, Brittany, King Henry, etc. Those are all privately owned. So how can THEY get away with it?

[thatonemom]

This craigslist explanation of the Fair Housing Act says that:

advertising which expresses a preference based upon sex is allowed in shared living situations where tenants will share a bathroom, kitchen, or other common area.

I promise I'm not crazy about all this stuff. I'm selling my contract for where I live now and had to wade through all the rules about what you can and can't do, and why.

[Violet]

Well, but the majority of "BYU housing" is not owned by BYU. All the folks like Carriage Cove, Crestwood, Branbury, Brittany, King Henry, etc. Those are all privately owned. So how can THEY get away with it?

As they contract with BYU, a part of their ability to segregate based on sex is by being enrolled in classes. If you look at most of the contracts, they'll have a clause that talks about needing to be enrolled at BYU, UVU, and a host of other hair and technical schools that have signed on. That's where the "if you're not in religion classes you have to be taking institute" rumor comes from. It's actually, if you're not a student at any of the institutions listed in the contract, enroll in institute (to protect the complex's standing).

Thatonemom, I think that policy works for most situations, but at BYU it's entire apartment complexes. If an apartment could be filled with all boys in a girls' complex, then most places it wouldn't be an issue, but it is at BYU.

This may not make sense at all as I tend to fill gaps easily as I've grown up in the BYU housing world—my parents own and manage complexes—so please ask me to clarify if I've left something out.

[Laser Jock]

For what it's worth, Board Question #27764, Board Question #27840, and Board Question #55044 talk a little more about the court cases that BYU fought about this.

[Portia]

Krebscout doesn't live in Provo! Why is this relevant?

[Marduk]

Wait, PORTIA is trying to keep us on topic?

Time for me to try out for the glee club.

[Portia]

Wait, PORTIA is trying to keep us on topic?

Time for me to try out for the glee club.

Don't stop believin' ... hold on to that feelin' ... Wolveri-i-ine studeeeeent!