I Just Need A Place To Rant

[katydid]

I'm so lonely. I'm an atheist. I hate a lot of things about the church. And I'm stuck living in BYU housing because I can't afford to live somewhere more expensive. I don't dare talk about how I really feel to anyone around me. I've told two friends the truth. They were kind to me, but one is the kind of true-blue Mormon who never questioned, and just can't see how anyone else could have a different viewpoint, and takes it personally that I do. The other is going through her own faith crisis, but has chosen to hang on even tighter to the Church, and doesn't want to hear anything I say. I just moved to a new apartment, and I'm regretting it so much. My last ward was full of good people who were my friends, and now it's a half hour walk away, and I don't have a car and I'm just so lonely. I just wish I could talk about how I really feel without getting judgmental stares and awkward silences, even from my best friends. And because I was raised to stand up for what I believe in, I'm going crazy from the guilt for not doing that. I work at a very conservative place, and I have to write things with my name attached to them that go out to the internet that I really don't agree with, and I actually worry that some of the things I say might do harm. But I need the money. I'm a coward. I don't feel like I really have a place in this world. My future is just this big, gaping hole of uncertainty. I'm scared that if I move away from my friends, I won't know how to make new friends. I don't know how to make new friends without the structure of the church. And I'm so damn mad that the church has made me this way. I'm socially crippled, and I have no real life experience, all in the name of being "pure" and "Christlike" so I don't scare away God. I honestly have no idea how to behave in social situations outside of the church. I've never been more than a couple feet away from a bunch of Mormons my whole life. I'm just so angry that I've wasted so much of my life serving this god who doesn't exist. I just want to get away from Utah. But where would I go? And I hate myself so much because I know that by being who I really am, I'm hurting everyone I really care about. I just don't have anyone to talk to. I hate myself for being a coward. Why can't I just be who I really am, and not care what other people think? I've been trained to be submissive and meek, and I don't know how to stand up for myself. Being raised in the Church really damaged my worldview, and I hate it so much. Please, I know there are people here on the boardboard who have left the Church. How did you do it? How does a sheltered girl from Utah do it? Help me. Please.

[mic0]

katydid, I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time. I wish I was in Utah Valley right now (something I rarely wish!) just so we could chat. I know that a year ago there was a fairly active ex-Mormons group that met at the Coffee Pod weekly. Maybe they were just atheists, but being in Provo meant they were mostly ex-Mormons. A couple of people on this forum used to go there, maybe they'll chime in and say if it is still meeting? I'll try and find out more..

It looks like there is a Utah Valley Post-Mormons Meetup group. They are meeting tomorrow in Orem, though you can also just post on their site and get more info. The Ex-Mormon group on reddit is really welcoming as well.

I wish I could comfort you, but I don't even know what to say. For me, leaving the Church was hard, too. I think it is hard for everyone who ever really tried to (or really did) believe. I'd love to chat with you through email if you want. Your question "Why can't I just be who I really am, and not care what other people think?" really hit home for me. That was one of the hardest things for me, to just be honest with people about my beliefs and not worry about what they thought. It's been a year since graduating from BYU, maybe two years since realizing it wouldn't be easy to go back to Church, and probably four years since I really started questioning the Church in general. And you know what? It has gotten easier to tell people the truth, and easier to not feel guilty when I drink tea (yeah, TEA! sometimes COFFEE! alcohol once in a while!) - but it is not completely easy. I still get uncomfortable when someone asks me if I'm Mormon, or if my brother asks me if I still go to church, or if my mom asks me if I'll pray for so-and-so. The only people who know that I'm 90% agnostic and actually don't believe in the church I grew up in are my husband and my new friends (and I guess the people on this forum ). I still think about the Church a lot, but it is slowly becoming The Past, and one day it will be a part of my heritage but not so much a part of my life. Which is weird, but true, and it can be that way for you, too, even in Utah.

I thought leaving Utah would fix my problems of thinking about religion so much, but it didn't. What did help (though not "fix") was finding new friends who weren't Mormon. So, I'd say that needs to be your first step. Either through those links I gave you above, or maybe through other methods (I guarantee at least one of your friends from BYU is in the same boat as you and you just don't know it), you need to find people who understand. Even just over-the-internet-friends (me??? or the reddit, or postmormon.org?) may help you see that (1) you are not alone in your feelings, and (2) there is a whole HUMONGOUS world of people and experiences who have nothing to do with Mormons. At all.

Okay, I'm rambling now. I hope this is somewhat helpful. I feel awkward saying all this as I'm still in the process myself, but I do have a little bit of space away from the Church and it has helped. A (TBM) friend of mine from BYU actually lives near me in Colorado and the other day we were talking and I jokingly asked if she was setting me up with the missionaries to reconvert me. She gave me a serious look and told me she doesn't think of me as Mormon or Not Mormon, just as a friend. That meant a lot to me. I think that here on this forum a lot of us just think of each other as friends at this point - maybe friends who have connections to Mormonism or the Board, but really just friends at the end of the day despite our differences. I hope you can find someone IRL who is that kind of friend, but maybe it will take some time, and in the meanwhile I can guarantee the people here will not judge or care about your religious affiliations.

[Whistler]

-it's okay to care about what other people think, but don't let that define your worth. You don't have to believe in God to believe that human life is priceless no matter whose it is (and therefore, no one is "better" or "worse" than others). Albert Ellis, an atheist psychologist, has written a lot about this "human rating" stuff.

-kind of along the same lines, try to detach yourself from your situation a bit more. There's no need to hate yourself for changing your mind about religion. It's logical that you wouldn't want to tell very many people about how your beliefs have changed, since you've tried and it's made you feel awkward. You also don't really want to lose your job because your beliefs have changed. That's completely understandable.

-I'm still very much Mormon, but if you want to talk to someone who hasn't known you as a Mormon, we could get together (PM me? I have friends of various faiths and I don't feel threatened by it?). Sometimes it helps to have SOMEONE to talk to who isn't connected to your family/friends at all. Or maybe just ranting at us will be help enough.

[Portia]

I'm in between the two previous posters on where I'm at. I believe in the Church more than I believe in God or Christianity. I attend my meetings, am happy at BYU, but I haven't let that stop me from having a good time. I'm teetotal for health reasons, have no desire to do drugs, but don't beat myself up over coffee or the media I consume.

I intend to be mostly active until I'm shunned away or I change my mind. I don't plan on marrying in the temple but rule nothing out yet.

I may be less introspective than you three, or just be an attention hog as Katya diagnosed, but I don't feel too torn up about my Terrestrial lifestyle. We're skeptics in my family, and fiercely independent.

I don't think the Church makes you meek or submissive, as I'm the most assertive, brash person I know. Some people are more extroverted, by nature and nurture. My mom was very dominating, probably borderline shrewish, so no surprises there. Just say what you want, and stand up for yourself. Also, assertive, bossy people care plenty what others think. That's human.

Walk the half hour to see your friends! They're not dead.

I do sympathize with the feeling that women are given short shrift in the church. However, I am hopeful that things will change.

Save money to be able to get your own place. Build a portfolio so you can advance in the workplace. (everyone does things for work they might not otherwise. Welcome to corporate America.)

I found the Post-Mos to be too dogmatic in their anti-ness. Dogmatism is what I was trying to get away from!! In case it's not obvious, though, Mormonism is low on the list of things that define me.

go make your community better. Tutor a low-performing kid. Pick up trash. Create music. Donate clothes to refugees. Nothing made me feel better about my faith crisis as much as getting out of myself.

[Marduk]

As those who know me can attest, I care little about your position in or out of this church. Your belief in no God is your own business. That being said, there are a few things that are clear based on your post.

First, whatever else the church is, it isn't solely about a God or lack thereof. You need to realize that the things that you did in the church are not simply wasted, as you put it. Even if God does not exist (an issue I won't address here) the socialization has given you what little social interaction you have, for one thing. The church hasn't crippled you in this regard. You've crippled yourself. If I lived in a predominantly rural society and decided I hated farming and hunting and all the activities that were part of that area, it would be up to me to find something different. The church has provided a social environment that you've decided you don't want. The first thing to realize is that it is up to YOU to decide what it is that you DO want, not just what you DON'T want. I have several different groups of friends that revolve around given activities, entirely unrelated to church. The best way to make friends is to find communities organized around hobbies or viewpoints you have, and with the internet, that's easier than ever. But you've got to stop blaming the church for your lack of social life.

Second, everyone has to make compromises in the job they do. You've got to decide if these compromises are too much for you. If so, find a different place of employment. You can look for a new job while still employed at your old one, so don't use the excuse of money. Either you don't mind the compromises enough to leave, or you're actively finding a new job. In between you'll just make yourself miserable.

Third, you have life experience. Plenty. Drinking and smoking, or sexual activity, or whatever, aren't "life experience." If that's what you've decided you want (and there are plenty of non-Mormon people who don't want those things, or very sparingly want them) then go ahead and do it. But if you can't succeed socially without those things, you can't succeed socially with them. They are not the problem either.

In short, take it for what it is worth, but what you've written simply shows a lack of trying, and a whole ton of blaming other things for your problems. As an atheist, it seems like you'd be much more prone to realize and embrace the idea that we only have what happiness we can make. So go out and make the happiness you want, instead of sitting around complaining that it hasn't been made for you.

[Portia]

I don't feel like Marduk and I agree all that often, but I find myself nodding in agreement. The tone was super harsh, which may be less-advisable when someone is already feeling down, but the content of what he says has merit.

First, whatever else the church is, it isn't solely about a God or lack thereof.

Can I have this on a shirt? A cross-stitch?

But if you can't succeed socially without [sex, drugs, rock 'n' roll], you can't succeed socially with them. They are not the problem either.

Aaaamen. So many of my friends, admirers, and exes fall into the unfortunate crossroads of geekdom and disillusionment, and THIS.

So go out and make the happiness you want, instead of sitting around complaining that it hasn't been made for you.

My awesome brother (who is not very socially oriented at all, but content with himself) gave the best farewell talk ever™. This was a kid who had lost his best friend, and even had to take an emergency withdrawal last Fall in some classes due to all the trauma, unbeknownst to me. Our atheist grandfather asked him what his goals for his mission were. He wanted to say something that seemed substantial to someone outside the Mo culture. I loved his answers. The one that touched me the most is the Hinckley, père quote

Forget yourself and go to work.

You don't have fun by saying I am going to have fun, fun, fun now. As my boyfriend says, you don't find happiness by seeking happiness, but working so hard that it happens.

I think both Marduk and I are on one end of a spectrum of ... what, exactly? Bluntness? Insensitivity? Not really prone to depression? So even though he is now nominated for the Less Tactful Than Portia of the year award, sometimes picking yourself up by the bootstraps really is the fastest, most effective way out of a funk.

[Violet]

So first off, faith crises suck and they're terrible and emotional and full of uncertainty. I'm sorry you're feeling so alone.

Next, the counseling center on campus is great. Maybe you're not in a place where you'd be comfortable with a counselor, but I've mostly had good experiences (talking about faith things too!) and I know so many people who have been helped through their faith crises with counseling (the first time I got together with a group of questioners everyone raved about how great the counseling center was). Not a professional by any means, but being able to open up to somebody helps. Also, they're confidential, which I know is a stressor for a lot of BYU students who are going through similar crises (it definitely was for me).

On the other people note, I still have some pretty good Provo connections with underground groups (although the atheists at the Coffee Pod scared me off as they were a little too disrespectfully ex-mo)—I have no idea how old you are but most of them are older. If you want to message me and talk for a little bit, I could figure out which groups you'd fit in with best and give you some contacts.

But really, Portia's first answer is spot on for my experience. To add a little bit more: even if you do have a quieter, less aggressive personality, you can learn to speak up for yourself. It takes stepping outside your comfortable box, but you can make it happen.

And finally, I'm a fixer. I'm action oriented and if all you wanted was someone to say that sucks, I'm sorry.

[mic0]

Others are right that there are a lot of postmormon/exmormon groups that are pretty... aggressive? Yeah. That said, there ARE people who are not so aggressive you'll just have to find them. Especially on reddit/r/exmormon, if you ignore the top post or two you'll usually find people just talking about dealing with life and family and not being overly mean. Same with postmormon.org.

On the other hand, there are other groups/clubs that meet in Provo and are not centered on religious things. Outdoorsy clubs, book clubs, Quark at BYU, other Meetups; go to your favorite book/game/movie store or restaurant or whatever and you can find an event and find some friends. It involves Getting Out There (scary to some, myself included) but it will be worth it to find friends whose interests align with yours.

[Katya]

I may be less introspective than you three, or just be an attention hog as Katya diagnosed . . .

For the record, I never said you were an attention hog.

[TheBlackSheep]

Dude. Duuuuude. I will buy you all the ice cream if you want to talk to someone who won't judge you either way. Let me know if you are interested.

[katydid]

Thank you, everyone, for your responses. It's the first time I've said anything like that to anyone, ever. I'm aware that a lot of it probably sounded whiny, but like I said, I just wanted to rant. It's been building up for a long time. Thank you for giving me both positive feedback and things to actually do about it. I haven't been feeling well physically for a while, so I've just been operating on autopilot, and just barely realized that I don't really like it anymore. Changes will definitely be coming.

[UnluckyStuntman]

Aw, reading your answer, Mico, made me wax nostalgic for our Anti-Conference weekend get-togethers. Good times. *sniffles*

Katydid, I basically ditto everything Mico said about building yourself a non/post-Mormon support network. Even if your interactions are mostly online it will help a lot. And absolutely let the Black Sheep buy you ice cream. If I still lived in Utah I'd tag along, but since I don't, feel free to email me any time. I have lots of experience in keeping the peace (I live with my parents right now, and my mom is the relief society president in her ward. I'm agnostic and don't attend church with my family. I'm a PRO at keeping the peace.) I'll PM you my address.

In the meantime, do what you gotta to keep your sanity. There are TONS of students who attend(ed) BYU/live(ed) in BYU housing and feel like they never quite fit in (myself included), so take a little comfort knowing that there is probably at least one person in your social circle who is also currently miserable. You just have to find them

[Emiliana]

I was raised in a church other than the Mormon church, and have a very different set of social circumstances, but I feel you on how hard it is to lose your faith. *hugs*