Deciding Where to Settle Down

[mic0]

We aren't settling down anywhere just yet, but we are thinking about it. How did you decide? Did you have options, or did you follow a job/school? Did you consider weather or politics or other things? Did you visit cities before deciding to move there? Just curious. Because Mr. Mico can work from home, and because I'm probably going to end up in a not-linguistics-specific job, our options are pretty open, and it is just something I think about often.

[Dragon Lady]

We're pretty sure we're settled here in Utah. We'll hopefully move once more, to build our forever home, but barring unforeseen circumstance, it'll be around here somewhere. Part of it is because it's familiar. Much of it is due to proximity to family, which is important to us. It's also a big hub for programming, which happens to be Yellow's job. So that's convenient. He loves snow. We both love the mountains. Apple has tried to pull us to Cali on multiple occasions, but I want land and a house without paying for it for the rest of my life. And I don't want Yellow to have to commute for 1-2 hours every day. Mostly because I'm jealous of my Yellow Time. I also don't like some of their education regulations. But mostly, it's just too far away from the people I love. It just fits us, I guess.

[mic0]

Thanks, DL! I like hearing all your reasons.

"And I don't want Yellow to have to commute for 1-2 hours every day."

Off-topic a little, but my dad commuted from New Jersey to NYC (about 1-2 hours) every day for about 10 years, and then in TX from the suburbs to Houston (about an hour) on and off for a long time. He hated it and it made home life for him and my mom more stressful. So glad you are considering that, because it seriously makes a huge difference.

Remind me, you've mainly lived in Utah and Idaho, right? What about Yellow? Did you start looking at education things before having children, or did you only start thinking about a house after? (I've read your blog, but not that far back. )

[Dragon Lady]

I grew up in Idaho and moved to Utah in 2004. Yellow has lived in Utah his entire life, sans mission when he lived in Spain. (I had a brief stint in China and Israel.)

I mostly started looking into educational things a year or two ago. So I had two kids at the time. I mean, I had thought about it a little before. Dragon Baby had done a year of preschool at a neighbor's preschool in her basement. At that point we were mostly just focused on getting her some socialization and getting used to being away from mom and dad some. At some point in there we decided to send her to Learning Dynamics for her second year of preschool because of how amazing their reading program is (and I'll testify to that. Her reading has *exploded!*) and because she showed such an interest in reading. Mostly it's just been bit by bit. Good friends who have similar beliefs telling me about current school policy in California (where their mom teaches), a sister-in-law in child development classes telling me about immersion programs and studies done on them, neighbors/friends who have kids in local charter schools, etc.

So, at that point we'd already built a house here. But I wouldn't say that that alone makes us established. So far Yellow has changed jobs every two years. One job change was the reason we decided to move and build. I've been trying to convince Yellow to move again recently (but just around the corner), so clearly this house isn't tying me down. But as a good friend of ours keeps trying to convince us to move to Cali and work at Apple, we've had many discussions specifically about living in California. And every one has made us more and more firm in our resolve *not* to live there.

[vorpal blade]

The most important factor was a finding a good job. I had options for several places around the country. One option was in Maryland, close to where I grew up. But nothing felt right except where I am now living in California. Actually it is possible to have a large home and land for not very much in California, just not along the coast. At the time I moved here land was selling for about $50-$200 an acre. It is more than ten times that now, however.

One of the attractive things about the place I'm living is that it is a small community. I choose to ride my bicycle to work each day, and that means a communte of about 6 miles each way for me. For others it is a 3 mile trip. It takes some time, but it is good exercise, has no impact on the environment, and costs very little. I can ride year around. Our community has a very high level of education, mostly being scientists and engineers. That includes programmers. The schools are good. I do have a problem with what the California legislature is trying to do to indoctrinate the children in their particular social and political view.

The church is strong here with about 7 or 8% LDS. That was important to us as well. We weren't too thrilled with living in an area where the church is taken for granted, as it seemed to be in Utah.

Shopping and cultural events, big sports teams, and that sort of thing is not here, but I don't miss it. Some people do. We have long hot summers, but very pleasant winters, and that is the way I like it. That sort of thing might make a difference to you. Some things grow really well here, and other things need a bit more colder weather in a year.

[Portia]

My endless litany of breakups has complicated this question, because can one settle down by oneself? I had recently planned to stay here for three years, because I really like my job, but I have a difficult time picturing living here forever. I've looked into jobs and professional programs in my field on the West Coast (including B.C.), and I think that lifestyle appeals a lot more to me.

Utah's air, politics, and family drama are all points against it. I was moderately disappointed that the average age of first marriage is a lot lower than I thought in places like Washington (my age), but it probably rises if you only consider women of my education and class. I told a guy that by my age, here in Utah, if you're not married by my age, there's probably a reason. 9/12 of the people on the business team are married; one from Cali lives with his long-term girlfriend, and one is four years younger than me and from the East Coast. Yet another reason to not waste the prime years of life.

[S.A.M.]

We haven't settled down yet, but we have often looked at places we wanted to go/experience, and then found a job in that area. Some things to look for wherever you go though:

Try to live East of your employment, that way the sun is at your back during commutes, and not in your face.

If you bike, like vorpal blade, try to live uphill from your employent. That way you have an easy ride to work and are not super sweaty when you arrive. You'll get a nice workout on the way home.

Find a home as close as possible to the schools and church you and your children will be attending. Minimizing your driving time is awesome.

[Whistler]

I live in Utah and will probably live in Utah for a long time yet. My husband has a fairly stable programming job and he'll probably work at his current company until he gets sick of it (although I acknowledge the fact that he could suddenly lose his job or something, but he's such a genius programmer and he knows so many other programmers that he's never had to really look for a job). We're going to move to Provo, which I'm looking forward to for things like Google Fiber and having the Provo library be my library again (can't believe I took it for granted when I lived there). We'll also be within biking distance of Adam's work, a grocery store, Frontrunner, and the elementary school, which were things that were important to us when we bought the land we'll be building on. I miss the ability to walk places I had when I lived in Provo. Unless you like commuting, having a short commute time improves people's lives more than they usually think it will (although it sounds like that will not be a problem for you).

There are some nice things about Spanish Fork. We're right next to the canyon mouth, so it wasn't too much trouble for me to drive up and go hiking in the mountains, but I've only done that 5-6 times anyway. Being next to the mountains also gives us nice views of them from our windows and when we walk our dog, which I wonder if I'll miss. I don't think I'll miss living next to a highway, or feeling like I'm out in the middle of nowhere. I think if I live in a smallish city again, I'd want a bigger backyard so I could like, raise chickens or something.

There are things I miss about California where I grew up, in the bay area. I miss the lovely weather that I could count on (foggy in the morning, warms up in the afternoon, then cools down again in the evening. basically year-round). I miss having friends and neighbors who aren't white and mormon. I miss the county-wide library system. I miss the ocean and the redwoods. My parents still live in California though, so I get to visit them periodically, which helps with my occasional homesickness.

[Dragon Lady]

I should note: I'm not saying California is a bad place for everyone. Just for Yellow and my personalities and goals.

And Vorpal, land might be cheaper away from the coast, but if we did choose to live in Cali, it would be because Yellow got a job at Apple. In which case we'd have to choose between cheaper land and house and a shorter commute. I *need* land. Dirt is therapeutic to me. During the summer if I ever start getting grouchy, Yellow will sweetly ask me if I want to go work out in the garden. Because he knows it calms my nerves. Haha. But I'm also very jealous of my Yellow time. He had a 45-min commute one way for awhile (ok, to be fair it was shorter going to work, but the traffic was awful on the way home) and I hated it. And then he started working from home and, well, let's just say it's going to have to be an amazing job with amazing benefits and amazing coworkers, etc. to let me let him work outside the home again. It is *so nice* to be like, "Yellow, the kids are cranky, I'm trying to get dinner, and I've had a rotten day. I'd love for you to come home soon," and have him home in 2 minutes instead of 45. Plus many other perks.

That said, if he can work from home, we *could* live anywhere. So long as it got decent internet to allow the working-at-home aspect.

So, if I could live anywhere I wanted. Let's say we were planning on moving anyway and Yellow was going to keep his work-from-home job forever. This is what I would want:
- close proximity to family (So, pretty much, Utah/SLC counties or SE Idaho)
- land. I'd love .5-1 acre.
- But close enough neighbors, with kids similar ages to mine, that my kids can go play without having to be driven everywhere.
- A not-high traffic road. So I'm not scared to let my kids ride their bikes on the road.
- But with the country-feel, I want to live close to a city. I want to be able to run to the store if I forgot an ingredient for dinner. I don't want to have to make shopping trips an event. I like convenience.
- Good internet. I'd prefer fiber. So I'd have to research which cities around here have fiber. I know Provo and Orem do.
- Not a wind tunnel. I currently live in a wind tunnel. Every spring I question my decision to live here. Especially when it starts blowing over my garden trellises and breaking them. Or I watch it pick up a trampoline and throw it against someone's house. (I've heard of it throwing play sets, too!)
- Not up super high. I need a long enough growing season for my garden. But when you go up in the hills (like Eagle Mountain), you lose a good month or two off your growing season. I would be so sad.
- Speaking of land, what I really dream of is a really big plot of land with multiple houses on it. Currently those houses are going to be occupied with Brother (and hypothetical future family) and some neighbors here that we've become great friends with. I'm thinking it'll be set up Backyardigan style. So a big circle, and all of our back yards are shared. And it's not fenced in. We split the costs of play equipment and toys. It's like a giant park in their back yard. And they can all go out and play with their friends/cousins at any time. There will also be a large, shared garden and a large, shared greenhouse. (Brother and I have been plotting this set up for a long time. I've just recently added in the other family in my mind. So I hope they get along with Brother really well. We've already started working together, though. My parents raised a cow for us and the three of us are splitting it. Voldermoo will be in my freezer *tomorrow!* I'm so excited!) This land should also potentially have room for chickens and bees. (I'll be honest, I'm nervous about the bees. But also really excited about them.) Also, a good patch of grass to play croquet.
- For Yellow's sake, we need to have all four seasons. He loves snow. We also need mountains for pretty.
- For my sake, it needs to have a good spring with lots of flowering trees and a long growing season. So ... Alaska is out.
- We need to be close (but I'm willing to drive somewhat) to a *good* school. Preferably small class sizes and a language option. Immersion preferable. And parent involvement required. I really want to be involved, but I also know I'm lazy. So I need requirements.
- I'd love to be further away from the inversion. All this smog depresses me every winter. I feel guilty driving my car, especially on red days. And I'm afraid to go outside and breathe in that grossness. Especially while pregnant or when I'm with my kids. I'd love to get a new car with a high smog rating, but currently electric/hybrid minivans aren't a thing in the US yet. So we would only use it as a second car, when we don't have the whole family, and where Yellow won't have a commute, it's much harder to justify the cost. So with all the above considered, I'm not entirely sure how well I'd be able to manage this. Maybe we will have to someday consider Idaho. (Except for the fiber thing...)

And... that about sums up my requirements. At least the ones I could think of off the top of my head.

[Portia]

I appear to be one of the few who wants to live in an urban environment. I can't wait to get out of the suburbs. Here are the things that are high on my list:

Jobs. I want there to be several professional opportunities in my field. My work is concentrated in cities.
Cultural events. It's a lot easier to have high-quality entertainment options in cities of at least half a million.
Transit. I don't drive, and I don't see the need to start.
Dating scene. I'd want a city where there is a decent pool of young urban professional men.
Well-educated and literary. I've lived in #7 and #15 of cities where a lot of people order books off Amazon
Good public education system. This is a point where Utah abjectly fails and Washington is very strong.
Good air. Ditto.
Good weather. I define this as four seasons and not humid. Anywhere West of the 100th meridian and North of the 37th is good.
Good airline connections. I foresee having to travel for my job. A clean, well-functioning airport is a must.

[bobtheenchantedone]

Marduk and I have been thinking about it a little. Once he has his PhD he wants to get a job here, in Cali, or in Texas - all places with family. Though we both have more family here, I'm leaning toward Cali (where I also have family) or Texas due to weather. I really dislike cold and snow. Unfortunately he hates heat. We're also kind of considering where there are decent theaters (if my sister and I continue our business, she'll have to live close to us) and have joked about Canada since his father is a citizen.

I share some of the same requirements with you, DL. I need good internet for my business, a quiet street for my kids to play, close by grocery stores (and craft stores, and post office, etc.), and at least a little land for kids, large dogs, and gardening.

[Yarjka]

Be a nomad. It's more adventurous.

[Amity]

Be a nomad. It's more adventurous.

I have a friend who actually does this! She and her husband both have internet businesses, so they move around the world as the whim strikes them. Even though they have a kid who's about 18 months now. Every few months she'll post Facebook photos from some new corner of the earth.

I'm hunting for jobs right now and will likely move somewhere completely new in the next six months, but unfortunately the academic job market doesn't afford me much choice of where I go. If I had my druthers, I'd pick a moderately-sized city where I could live on the outskirts or in the suburbs and still be close to interesting things to do, cool historical buildings I can gawk at, good ethnic food to eat and markets to buy good-quality ingredients, four seasons with low humidity, within an hour of a major airport, and reasonable housing prices. Basically, if I end up in the Pacific Northwest, I will be one happy person.

[Katya]

We're going to move to Provo, which I'm looking forward to for things like Google Fiber and having the Provo library be my library again (can't believe I took it for granted when I lived there).

Yayyy! I think you'll be so much happier here. Where in Provo are you moving? (PM me if you don't want to post it publicly.)

[Digit]

Be a nomad. It's more adventurous.

One thing that comes to mind though is in-network vs out-of-network doctors for one's health insurance.

[Dragon Lady]

Be a nomad. It's more adventurous.

One thing that comes to mind though is in-network vs out-of-network doctors for one's health insurance.

Depends on the insurance. Many nation-wise ones have in-network all over the country. Granted, if you're an international nomad, that could be far more difficult.

[Portia]

Be a nomad. It's more adventurous.

One thing that comes to mind though is in-network vs out-of-network doctors for one's health insurance.

Depends on the insurance. Many nation-wise ones have in-network all over the country. Granted, if you're an international nomad, that could be far more difficult.

I'd much rather have a child in Canada than here. British Columbia is pretty much the Promised Land to me.

[Digit]

Do foreigners get the same medical benefits as citizens in Canada?

[Portia]

Do foreigners get the same medical benefits as citizens in Canada?

If I were just a tourist, no, but if I were a permanent resident working in Canada, or married to a Canadian citizen or permanent resident, I could likely apply to be covered.

And this article about an American having a baby in Paris is just jaw-dropping. I'm not doing something that could end up costing five, six figures. And since I was a high-risk and premature birth, I'd need to be somewhere with a good neonatal ICU.

[Yarjka]

Do foreigners get the same medical benefits as citizens in Canada?

If I were just a tourist, no, but if I were a permanent resident working in Canada, or married to a Canadian citizen or permanent resident, I could likely apply to be covered.

I'm in Canada on a student visa. We pay a nominal fee for insurance through the university ($684/yr for my wife, mine is covered by my program [much of my wife's is reimbursed by a course union fund]). Our daughter's birth was completely covered, I never saw a single bill. All of her doctor's visits are covered since she is a Canadian citizen due to her birth here. We also get all of the tax credits. My wife also got mandatory paid maternity leave through her two part-time jobs.