would you date outside your religion?

[Portia]

Assume shared values and life goals. (For instance, if you're LDS, that your potential partner doesn't drink, smoke, or interfere with your meeting attendance.)

This was my first thought for the "thirty, flirty and thriving" problem.

[Katya]

In theory, yes, but in practice I think I'd have worse odds of finding someone compatible outside my religion as opposed to inside it.

[Concorde]

I've discussed this a lot with my mom recently since I'll be graduating in a year. I haven't dated anyone at BYU beyond a handful of first dates and I just really am not compatible with a lot of LDS guys (at least at BYU). I've loved BYU, but I've never really fit in here. As a result, I really don't imagine that I will meet anyone or get serious within my last year here, nor do I particularly want to since BYU guys have never treated me very well at all.

As it happens, I've decided not to wait around Provo or even Utah until I get married. While it's completely possible that I may end up working for an investment banking firm in SLC, my ultimate career would take me far overseas to an area where there would be extremely limited numbers of single men who would match well with me (if there would be any at all).

I was crying to my mom about it because I was so conflicted: Do I focus on marriage or a career? They aren't mutually exclusive, but because of my job plans and my temperament it becomes tricky to balance the two. She surprised me by suggesting that I could always look outside the church and while converting someone is absolutely not a guarantee, it's a possibility. I've always seemed to feel more comfortable and more at ease with non-Mormon guys. I make friends with them more easily and things connect a little better. It's probably ridiculous that I'm so concerned about this at the ripe old age of 20, but like I said, I'm wrapping school up and I'm moving on. I hate that I feel like I'm not complete until I'm married and I don't want to wait around. I want to take control and have my own very successful career.

I also have this terrible fear of singles wards that are outside of college years. Because of my current job, I'm very often at these older 30-ish wards and I go into panic mode every time I'm at one. Maybe I've just had consistently terrible luck when going to these wards, but they just seem so bleak to me. This is going to sound absolutely awful and shallow and I KNOW it's absolutely nowhere near reality probably, but the people are always so strange (grown men who act like teenage boys-- one strange man with four inch long nails running around frantically jostling everyone to take pictures, etc). It's seemingly just a collection of rejects and that terrifies me because I can totally see myself ending up there if I don't just marry the first guy who will have me. I'm just so lost and conflicted about not being married and I absolutely hate that I'm this way at this age already. It's not healthy and it's not normal, but I'm hoping that when I get outside the Utah bubble and away from my constant stream of young friends getting hitched that it will get better. I hate the pressure and the anxiety and the feelings that come with constantly getting looked over.

It's led to horrible self-esteem on my part. It was never great at all to begin with but when all of your friends (and I mean almost all of them, literally) are now engaged or married and some have been for a year now, it makes you wonder what the heck is wrong with you. You think that you must not be pretty, or that you aren't intelligent or outgoing or flirty enough and you just doubt everything because c'mon-- all your friends are getting hitched, why can't you? And suddenly, you're 20 years old, about to be given two bachelor's degrees and enter a solid career with great potential and no man has ever even kissed you before. It's such a little thing, but it's not for lack of trying. I've asked out guys before but I get lukewarm responses. I've had them tell me several times "If a guy is interested, he'll ask you out himself." or "Guys don't like it when you ask them out. They just don't." It's just working off of the "He's just not that into you principle." So I've kind of given up. I'm just settling into the "You aren't getting married for a while, hon, so focus on other things." mindset. But it's hard when your Bishop sits you down for an ecclesiatical endorsement and you end up pouring all of this angst and hurt out to him and he just tells you "Forget school. Forget your career. Focus on getting married and it will happen. You should be married within a year and you can be if you just let everything else fall by the wayside."

I'm not a crier (or at least, I didn't used to be..) but I broke down because it wasn't helpful at all. What he said hurt. If this was the case, wouldn't all righteous women be married by now? I push myself to be so successful in everything that I can be-- to just look like an all around great person, but I can't make any headway at all in the one realm that supposedly matters more than everything else.

If my future job takes me far overseas (which I want it to) then I'm sunk in terms of getting married. That will just seal the whole spinster thing right up. So anyway, the point of this long, whiny post is that I would date outside of my religion. BYU guys aren't interested in me as a whole, and I know far more non-Mormons that are interested in me.

[Portia]

I was crying to my mom about it because I was so conflicted: Do I focus on marriage or a career? They aren't mutually exclusive, but because of my job plans and my temperament it becomes tricky to balance the two. ... It's probably ridiculous that I'm so concerned about this at the ripe old age of 20, but like I said, I'm wrapping school up and I'm moving on. I hate that I feel like I'm not complete until I'm married and I don't want to wait around. I want to take control and have my own very successful career.

Replace "mom" with "grandma" and "20" with "26," and you have the past three months of my life. I definitely feel that emptiness, that loneliness, and I don't know, it's tough. Especially if you have a high-strung temperament, and/or you fear rejection.

I don't even know the answer to my own question. But replace "religion" with "culture." There have been two suitors for my hand of late -- and in the interest of some degree of anonymity, I won't go into great detail, but suffice it to say that one is sort of the 30-year-old ex-Mormon "man-child" as my BFF put it, and the other is ... not ... but there are just so many ways in which our life goals don't mesh. I didn't realize how much the heavy drinking, the self-involvement, and the cynicism bug me until I tried it. I guess I am attracted on some level to "alpha" males but really would rather settle down with a wholesome, nice geek.

And my grandma flatters me that it's the guys who won't commit but she obviously only hears one side of the story.

I guess I don't really want to wait around forever for either one, and I sometimes feel like I purposely sabotage my chances at getting married by pushing anyone away who tries to get close to me.

This is kind of how the whole subject makes me feel.

[mic0]

Concorde, your mom sounds very level-headed which is great. I'm sorry your bishop was a jerk. I understand that he is supposed to have some kind of revelation about the members of his ward, but that seems to be super over-stepping the bounds. When I realized I completely disagreed with my bishops at BYU, it made my life much easier than when I was trying to please them. I hope you're able to reconcile those feelings. When I first started dating Mr. Mico I was still an active member (just doubting, sure that I would resolve those doubts, and I did! Haha ), and I ended up chatting with people from my home ward in Texas who had married outside the faith. It was really great to see that it is entirely possible to have a fulfilling marriage and spiritual life and different religious beliefs.

Portia, as for the question, when I was an active member of the church I dated outside my religion. As a teenager, my first two boyfriends (though we never "dated," we were emotionally invested) were not LDS. My third boyfriend was LDS, and it was my first normal relationship. My third boyfriend was Mr. Mico, and it was a complicated relationship, and the main reason we dated so long without getting engaged was because I was not willing to get engaged until I knew how I felt about religion and his lack of belief. Obviously I no longer fit the mold, but I definitely went through the feelings of figuring things out and what I wanted in life. My parents were very supportive and have always thought it is better to be happy and supported than married in the temple, but then they are very "liberal" when it comes to the church.

[Concorde]

I was crying to my mom about it because I was so conflicted: Do I focus on marriage or a career? They aren't mutually exclusive, but because of my job plans and my temperament it becomes tricky to balance the two. ... It's probably ridiculous that I'm so concerned about this at the ripe old age of 20, but like I said, I'm wrapping school up and I'm moving on. I hate that I feel like I'm not complete until I'm married and I don't want to wait around. I want to take control and have my own very successful career.

Replace "mom" with "grandma" and "20" with "26," and you have the past three months of my life. I definitely feel that emptiness, that loneliness, and I don't know, it's tough. Especially if you have a high-strung temperament, and/or you fear rejection.

I don't even know the answer to my own question. But replace "religion" with "culture." There have been two suitors for my hand of late -- and in the interest of some degree of anonymity, I won't go into great detail, but suffice it to say that one is sort of the 30-year-old ex-Mormon "man-child" as my BFF put it, and the other is ... not ... but there are just so many ways in which our life goals don't mesh. I didn't realize how much the heavy drinking, the self-involvement, and the cynicism bug me until I tried it. I guess I am attracted on some level to "alpha" males but really would rather settle down with a wholesome, nice geek.

And my grandma flatters me that it's the guys who won't commit but she obviously only hears one side of the story.

I guess I don't really want to wait around forever for either one, and I sometimes feel like I purposely sabotage my chances at getting married by pushing anyone away who tries to get close to me.

This is kind of how the whole subject makes me feel.

Yeah, I'm somewhat high-strung. I mean, I'm fairly chill for the most part, but I push myself way too hard and then expect it of everyone else.

And the thing is, I know of one or two LDS guys who would probably be okay with marrying me, but I just know that I wouldn't be happy with them long-term because they aren't the type of person that I need. I need someone ambitious and serious and a little bit manic at times maybe, like me. My bishop makes it sound like I can fall in love with anyone and take the first guy who comes along and force his hand into marrying me, but it's not that easy. I haven't had a terribly happy life thus far and for once in my life, I deserve a future that I want-- one that I didn't settle for just because someone told me that I need to. One that makes me happy. I know what kind of guys I really like and they're either taken or not interested in me in the slightest.

[Concorde]

Concorde, your mom sounds very level-headed which is great. I'm sorry your bishop was a jerk. I understand that he is supposed to have some kind of revelation about the members of his ward, but that seems to be super over-stepping the bounds. When I realized I completely disagreed with my bishops at BYU, it made my life much easier than when I was trying to please them. I hope you're able to reconcile those feelings. When I first started dating Mr. Mico I was still an active member (just doubting, sure that I would resolve those doubts, and I did! Haha ), and I ended up chatting with people from my home ward in Texas who had married outside the faith. It was really great to see that it is entirely possible to have a fulfilling marriage and spiritual life and different religious beliefs.

She is level-headed and that has surprised me because she struggled with a lot of things herself as well. But it helps that she came from a broken home, and that she and my dad weren't married in the temple and that an aunt married outside of the church. She's cool in surprising me like that. It was a bit of a relief to hear, because I'd been feeling so trapped (and a trapped Concorde is literally the worst situation for Concorde to be in or feel like she's in, in any regard).

[Portia]

I need someone ambitious and serious and a little bit manic at times maybe, like me.

I'd just like to submit that guys like this (and they are the minority anywhere) exist in and out of the LDS Church. The guy I dated for the better part of five years was this way. He was my best friend -- that was probably the worst part of that breakup, losing someone who was so intelligent and talented and clearly going places. He was a Jack Mo, and we met at BYU.

Part of the tear-stained DTR that I had with the Engineer was this very problem, that he was probably too ambitious for me. He hasn't even lived in the same state as me for the past year and a half. I think I might prefer someone who balances out that side of me, because I feel like if a guy's career will always come first, I won't. I'm not going to run off to the West Coast again for some dude. And this type often doesn't want to get married til their mid-thirties, and I feel ready to get married within the next three years. And I love my career, and it's here in Utah.

I also think that sexual compatibility is a very large factor for me. I honestly think I'd rather compromise a bit elsewhere and win in this area than otherwise. My therapist and I have different views on that, though. :P

[Portia]

Also, looking at my BYU girlfriends, I wonder if my standards are too high. I mean, "unambitious" to me means "employed full-time, stable, but no clear 10-year plan." I'm pretty picky on looks, height, and temperament, so yeah, that starts to really rule guys out. Like, is it crazy to want someone to have the same BMI or less that I do? To be 5'11" at least when I'm only 5'4"? For my family to like them? To have an advanced degree or consider it? I mean, I'm cool and hot and all, and I have an irrational fear of ending up with someone who works at Wal-Mart, but maybe I'm just quibbling.

[Portia]

It's led to horrible self-esteem on my part. It was never great at all to begin with but when all of your friends (and I mean almost all of them, literally) are now engaged or married and some have been for a year now, it makes you wonder what the heck is wrong with you. You think that you must not be pretty, or that you aren't intelligent or outgoing or flirty enough and you just doubt everything because c'mon-- all your friends are getting hitched, why can't you? And suddenly, you're 20 years old, about to be given two bachelor's degrees and enter a solid career with great potential and no man has ever even kissed you before. It's such a little thing, but it's not for lack of trying. I've asked out guys before but I get lukewarm responses. I've had them tell me several times "If a guy is interested, he'll ask you out himself." or "Guys don't like it when you ask them out. They just don't." It's just working off of the "He's just not that into you principle." So I've kind of given up. I'm just settling into the "You aren't getting married for a while, hon, so focus on other things." mindset. But it's hard when your Bishop sits you down for an ecclesiastical endorsement and you end up pouring all of this angst and hurt out to him and he just tells you "Forget school. Forget your career. Focus on getting married and it will happen. You should be married within a year and you can be if you just let everything else fall by the wayside."

Um, my first thought was all the swears.

Not being kissed, comparing yourself to your friends, and the so-called Fear of Missing Out, are all very real worries and hurdles in life, and his dismissive, paternalistic, insulting response is among the stupider things I've heard from someone in a position of leadership.

He's wrong. It's not 1951 and you can't just rope guys into getting married in this day and age. (Blame the sexual revolution, the economy, or social changes, but your Bishop and Princeton Lady are delusional.)

I think focusing on you is indeed the right approach, and 20 is young, but I don't think that it makes any pain/heartache/confusion any less real.

[Katya]

I just... the thing that got me through my teen years (which were darker than most because of the unfortunate place I had to grow up in) was the idea that I was going to go to BYU and it was going to be great, and I was going to make like my parents and get married sometime before I graduated and that was it. I knew that I could deal with anything else life threw my way, so long as I was married. And while I love BYU so much (it's eons better than the ghetto I grew up in) it's difficult knowing that right now, I'm going to have to continue to deal with life alone. Sure, I have my family and friends, but they live far, far away from me and my friends keep leaving my life for their own lives. I don't know how other older, single women handle it. They have so much more composure and maturity and acceptance and I respect them so much but I just don't know how they can accept it. And here I am, as a snot-nosed kid essentially, having my freak out probably long before it's due. It just...makes me feel so tired and whiny. I've already dealt with so many really awful things that most people don't even experience in their lives at all by myself... I'm tired of doing it all by myself. I just don't want to do it anymore at all. I'm so burnt out by all the crappy things that keep happening in my life and I'm tired of hunkering down by myself and trying to find God in the midst of it all to get me through it because no one else can or will help.

I think one of the biggest issues you're currently facing is that you're running into a self-created deadline. You've told yourself for years that all of the hard things you went through would get better and be worth it once you got to BYU and got married and now you're going to be leaving soon and you don't yet have all of those things you hoped for, and what's really hard is that missing those kind of deadlines has a way of bringing back all of the pain of the last 8 (or however many) years. It's sort of like struggling out of the ocean and crawling onto the beach, only to have the tide come rushing in again.

I don't know if I qualify as a "composed and mature" single woman, but I am older than you, so I'll say that in my experience, it's not at all uncommon to run into these kind of self-imposed deadlines, be they graduating from BYU, leaving Provo/Utah, hitting a milestone birthday, having a younger sibling get married before you, etc. (Turning 30 hit me like a ton of bricks and very unexpectedly so, because it's not like I thought that it was impossible to get married after 30, but it turned out that I'd been joking around for years about all of the crazy things I'd resort to if I was still single when I turned 30, so I had set it up as a mental deadline without even realizing it.)

What I think will happen (or at least what I hope will happen) is that you'll graduate single, and that will definitely be had, but after a while you'll start to find your footing and your hope again and you'll realize that the fact that you missed your deadline isn't the end of the world, and you can still stand your ground, and you're even more sure of your footing for having fallen down before. (I guess this is sort of like being able to stand on the beach without the tide knocking you over.)

I was reading some blog the other day and it said "Sometimes the difficult things last our whole entire lives." and that just hit because my life has been nothing but incredibly difficult. And I mean that-- without trying to be whiny. People ask me how I just keep chugging through all the crap that comes my way and for a while, it's just been because that's what I had to do. I kept chugging. But now, I'm tired of chugging through it all. I just want some happiness to come my way.

From what you've said and hinted at, it sounds like you've been through some really tough things that I have never been through. But I've been through some of my own really tough things that I don't think you're currently dealing with, so maybe our experience is somewhat comparable. Anyway, I've always hated the expression "endure to the end" because I'm just so tired all the time and hearing that makes me want to curl up into the fetal position and cry, because I'm often not even sure if I can endure to the end of the next five minutes. But a few months ago, I had the idea that maybe we don't all have the same "endure to the end" and maybe my "endure to the end" is something like "don't be so hard on yourself." So now whenever I hear "endure to the end," I think "don't be so hard on yourself," and it's good advice for me as well as being something I probably will need to work on "to the end," but it has the effect of comforting me instead of depressing me.

I don't know what your "endure to the end" should be, but I do know that if it's making you feel more depressed and hopeless, it's the wrong one. And I don't want to give you false hope at a time when you need to be more realistic, but maybe it would help you to think of something like "Trust that God has something good prepared for you."

[UffishThought]

Katya always says the best things.

It's been hard for me, too, here and there. I've made those unconscious deadlines, too, and I've missed most of them. I hit 23, which I thought was a reasonable goal, when I was a kid, and I graduated, and my little sister got married, and I make friends and then they get married and move away and I make more friends and they do the same thing, and many are on their 3rd or 4th baby, and I'm 28 now and there's no end to my singledom in sight.

It's also been a little dangerous, because it pushes me to stick with relationships for longer than I should, just in case. I was pretty convinced I was going to marry the last guy, but it was more because I feel like it would be good to get married and he'd be willing and my options are diminishing than because we were such a good match. Every so often, I revisit the same freakout: is it better to accept a mediocre marriage if I get the chance, or hold out for a great one that may never come? So far, I'm holding out for great, but I've come close to picking acceptable a time or two.

The church is such a big part of my life, I don't know if I could be a good match with someone outside of it. At the same time, I know several people who have thought the same thing and then changed their minds, so I reserve the right to change mine, too.

[Portia]

I think Uffish always says the best things, for the record. :-)

[Concorde]

I think one of the biggest issues you're currently facing is that you're running into a self-created deadline. You've told yourself for years that all of the hard things you went through would get better and be worth it once you got to BYU and got married and now you're going to be leaving soon and you don't yet have all of those things you hoped for, and what's really hard is that missing those kind of deadlines has a way of bringing back all of the pain of the last 8 (or however many) years. It's sort of like struggling out of the ocean and crawling onto the beach, only to have the tide come rushing in again.

I don't know if I qualify as a "composed and mature" single woman, but I am older than you, so I'll say that in my experience, it's not at all uncommon to run into these kind of self-imposed deadlines, be they graduating from BYU, leaving Provo/Utah, hitting a milestone birthday, having a younger sibling get married before you, etc. (Turning 30 hit me like a ton of bricks and very unexpectedly so, because it's not like I thought that it was impossible to get married after 30, but it turned out that I'd been joking around for years about all of the crazy things I'd resort to if I was still single when I turned 30, so I had set it up as a mental deadline without even realizing it.)

What I think will happen (or at least what I hope will happen) is that you'll graduate single, and that will definitely be had, but after a while you'll start to find your footing and your hope again and you'll realize that the fact that you missed your deadline isn't the end of the world, and you can still stand your ground, and you're even more sure of your footing for having fallen down before. (I guess this is sort of like being able to stand on the beach without the tide knocking you over.)

This is probably really true. I've never thought about it as a mental deadline because I was certainly aware of the likelihood of getting married outside of college (especially given my age and the fact that I was younger than the average student at my place in life-- it's difficult being young and graduating anyway) but I just sort of expected that college was where you got married and that was that.

From what you've said and hinted at, it sounds like you've been through some really tough things that I have never been through. But I've been through some of my own really tough things that I don't think you're currently dealing with, so maybe our experience is somewhat comparable. Anyway, I've always hated the expression "endure to the end" because I'm just so tired all the time and hearing that makes me want to curl up into the fetal position and cry, because I'm often not even sure if I can endure to the end of the next five minutes. But a few months ago, I had the idea that maybe we don't all have the same "endure to the end" and maybe my "endure to the end" is something like "don't be so hard on yourself." So now whenever I hear "endure to the end," I think "don't be so hard on yourself," and it's good advice for me as well as being something I probably will need to work on "to the end," but it has the effect of comforting me instead of depressing me.

I don't know what your "endure to the end" should be, but I do know that if it's making you feel more depressed and hopeless, it's the wrong one. And I don't want to give you false hope at a time when you need to be more realistic, but maybe it would help you to think of something like "Trust that God has something good prepared for you."

I like that we all have different versions of "endure to the end." I need to keep reminding myself that just because someone else's "endure to the end" would be a piece of cake for me to handle, to them it might seem even more momentous than my "endure to the end" because of who they are as a person and their different life experiences. I'm kind of naturally an optimist (although it really doesn't sound like it here where I've decided to just explode it all everywhere apparently) but I'm also very pragmatic and it's hard to reconcile my rosier notions (like when I'm gonna get married) with the reality that I might have to learn to cope with being alone for a lot longer.

[Amity]

Concorde, I want to give you a hug and a brownie because I've totally been in the same place as you are. I also have a combination of ambition, temperament, and liberal social ideas that made it hard to date much while I was at BYU. You're probably sick to death of getting advice on the whole situation, so I'll just give you some empathy instead.

Katya, that's a really wise insight about self-created deadlines.

And since I should maybe address the poll topic, as I've gotten older I've become more open to the idea of dating outside the LDS religion (though as Katya points out that brings up its own set of compatibility issues). My mindset on dating and relationships has done pretty much a 180 from my days as a bright-eyed, orthodox BYU co-ed.

[Concorde]

Concorde, I want to give you a hug and a brownie because I've totally been in the same place as you are. I also have a combination of ambition, temperament, and liberal social ideas that made it hard to date much while I was at BYU. You're probably sick to death of getting advice on the whole situation, so I'll just give you some empathy instead.

Hah, thank you. It is nice to just get empathy. Why is it so weird to guys around here that I am competitive and ambitious? I don't feel like I'm over-the-top about it. I just hope to reach my full potential in whatever I want to do and I'll do what it takes to get the ball rolling on that. I've already decided that if I get married and my husband and I decide together that the best option or needed option is for me to be a homemaker, I would give up all of my career goals in a heartbeat. I'll still be competitive and ambitious, but I'll just find other ways to vent that-- like writing an awesome new bestselling book series, or running marathons while pushing strollers. But guys look at me like I have two heads when I'm the only girl in my econ classes. They treat me like I'm only there to husband hunt and it's so degrading. I'm not the best at econ, but I love it and I'm doing it for myself.

[Whistler]

yeah, if guys are giving you crap for being ambitious or competitive then they are being stupid. I know board games are a common hobby around here... maybe it could be a good way to find other competitive people?

[Portia]

My mindset on dating and relationships has done pretty much a 180 from my days as a bright-eyed, orthodox BYU co-ed.

I had a similar experience from the opposite viewpoint. As a bright-eyed, bushy-tailed 17-year-old, I thought only chumps got married while in college. I would get a grad degree by 24, meet a similarly brilliant guy at 26/27 to travel the world with, and pop out some kids in my 30s.

Hahaha.

With the triumvirate of non-factor bio-dad/dead mom/unlikable second wife of dad, my already fragile trust in other human beings was diminished even more Add to that a faith crisis or three, a Child Bridehood near-miss, not graduating til 25, and my plans have already been derailed.

I am sometimes intensely jealous of my liberal coastal friends with their hot, smart non-Mormon husbands, their Instagrammed Mason jar wedding photos, their dropping our of the workforce to pursue Art.

Being unmarried is definitely not the worst thing life had to deal me. It does seem like something I ought to have been able to control, though, because I certainly don't have problems attracting men. One of my dear friends made me feel a lot better when he said that taking time or space to grieve. I don't think one's parent dying is in anyone's "script," and after losing so much, I think it's only now that I'd feel ready to be vulnerable enough to be in a potentially-losing position again.

I like that-- I'm like you. I hate the phrase endure to the end because sometimes it's not that I don't think I CAN endure to the end, it's just that the older I get and the more blah my life remains, the more I wonder if I even want to endure to the end or if it's going to be worth it. I know that sounds terrible but I just get tired of being told "Keep enduring" or "It gets better" because I've been hearing that my whole life. I was sexually assaulted as a child and I remember being told "It'll be okay. It'll get better. You've been through this and now you're stronger." But I wasn't stronger and it didn't get better and it happened again when I was a senior in high school. And then I started applying "endure to the end" to morals like sexual purity and wondering "Is it even worth it to keep trying to endure and keep myself pure when this ish keeps happening to me and I feel like I have to start from scratch again?" and that sort of evolved into the rest of my life.

It bears repeating ... violence perpetrated upon a child has nothing to do with purity or morals. This sh*t is why I became the occasionally angry feminist you see today.

It can have a whole hell of a lot to do with the ability to trust or form relationships, and it's a licensed therapist you need to talk to, not Bishop McCluelessson.

The fact that you're even functioning speaks to your determination.

[Concorde]

It bears repeating ... violence perpetrated upon a child has nothing to do with purity or morals. This sh*t is why I became the occasionally angry feminist you see today.

It can have a whole hell of a lot to do with the ability to trust or form relationships, and it's a licensed therapist you need to talk to, not Bishop McCluelessson.

The fact that you're even functioning speaks to your determination.

Oh yeah, no doubt about that. I hold no guilt or really anything for what happened and I recognize that I was completely innocent and I've moved past that. It honestly doesn't affect me too much anymore besides a few minor things like touch- I didn't grow up with like any touch in my life. My mom has hugged me like three times in the past twelve years of memory or so. I'm fairly certain I went without any "loving" touch in high school at all. I didn't realize how weird that was until I came to BYU and everyone hugs and touches casually and I literally had no idea how to properly hug. It sounds super bizarre and it was. I was like "Where do the arms go? What about the feet? Do feet touch when you hug?" It was a little harder to deal with what happened when I was older because I had gotten myself into a very poor situation and I had just been naive about it. Of course I didn't deserve it, but there was still a lot of "If you just hadn't been there when you weren't supposed to be" and "You KNEW that everything about that situation was bad" afterwards.

I am a surprisingly resilient person sometimes- I just don't see anything else that I can be anymore. But it comes at the cost of being sensitive and delicate. Mormon women always strike me as soft and feminine and gentle and delicate and spiritual and stuff like that, and I feel so coarse and blunt and straightforward next to them sometimes. And just very pragmatic. I think I throw BYU guys for a loop because I have a more masculine attitude for a Mormon woman. Also, as a sidenote, can anyone else not stand the women's general session? I try to listen but their lilting, sing-song voices drive me up a wall. I feel like I'm five and I just feel like it's so girlish and insincere. I am a terrible person.

[Amity]

But it comes at the cost of being sensitive and delicate. Mormon women always strike me as soft and feminine and gentle and delicate and spiritual and stuff like that, and I feel so coarse and blunt and straightforward next to them sometimes. And just very pragmatic. I think I through BYU guys for a loop because I have a more masculine attitude for a Mormon woman.

Yup, me too. We should be friends, Concorde.