Acceptability of stealing someone's not-girlfriend

[wryness]

So, I thought this girl was interested in me (she asked for my number when we met). I moved a little too slow and saw her holding hands with another guy and thought, "well, I blew that." I thought about trying anyway but I have seen them together at a few social functions (game nights, etc.) holding hands and looking like a couple. Weird thing is, this girl has been texting me occasionally, which would seem to indicate interest. (Or maybe she is just the texting type?) Then again, she tried setting me up on a date with a friend (so maybe not).

Well, we were texting a little today and I found a not-too-awkward opportunity to ask if she and the guy were dating exclusively, and she said this:

No we're not we've been dating but not exclusively.

And then (after a few "buffer texts") I eventually suggested that we could maybe do something together soon, to which she agreed.

Um, mixed signals? I personally wouldn't hold hands with someone if I weren't dating them exclusively, but I guess she doesn't feel that way. Hm. (Maybe the guy is initiating the hand-holding, I think hopefully.) Regardless, my MAIN question is, since she specifically told me she isn't dating exclusively, how acceptable is it for me to try to move in and date her? The other guy and I are friendly acquaintances so it will probably be awkward, but I think I'm willing to risk that. I guess I feel sort of like I will be "stealing" her if she started dating me instead (and I bet other people in my ward would look at it that way, too). In the past I think I've told myself that situations like this weren't "worth it," but I am interested in this girl and I think I'm going to tell myself that we are both awesome people and it is worth it to not just consign myself to "Forever Alone" land again.

So, how horrible of a person am I?

[wryness]

(I'm not really looking for vindication of my decision or for someone to dissuade me--I'm just curious to know what this looks like to you from an outsider's perspective.)

[mic0]

Um, mixed signals? I personally wouldn't hold hands with someone if I weren't dating them exclusively, but I guess she doesn't feel that way. Hm. (Maybe the guy is initiating the hand-holding, I think hopefully.) Regardless, my MAIN question is, since she specifically told me she isn't dating exclusively, how acceptable is it for me to try to move in and date her?

Where are the mixed signals?* You asked if she was exclusively dating this guy, she said no, you asked her on a date, she said yes. Seems like the problem is just that you wouldn't do things that way if two girls were interested in you, but hey, she is a different person and doesn't mind dating multiple people casually. My question is, what is she going to do when one or both of you decide you want to be exclusive and how many dates until it gets to that point?

*Oh, I see the mixed signals, she tried to set you up with another guy. Ah well. But she said yes to your date! Assuming she knew it was a romantical date.

[Whistler]

I was in an open relationship once, and everyone else I dated at the same time thought it was weird. Looking back, I can see how it was pretty nonstandard for BYU culture, but no one died.

[wryness]

My question is, what is she going to do when one or both of you decide you want to be exclusive and how many dates until it gets to that point?

Yeah, that part will be awkward. It'll be like that episode of Sabrina the Teenage Witch where two guys want to ask her to the dance, and she accidentally makes them both compete for her affections. (Yes, I did coincidentally see that rerun yesterday.)

Whistler, I am glad to hear that I probably will not die.

[mic0]

Sabrina the Teenage Witch is on hulu.com for free, btw... You'll have to keep us updated.

[SmurfBlueSnuggie]

My first boyfriend held my hand weeks before I accepted that we were a couple. And kissed me. And it worked out fine. This has actually happened twice, but the second time we never acted like a couple if anyone was around.

From my perspective of being the girl, she could very well be interested in both of you and not want to commit to either of you until she's given each of you a chance. Take the chance she's giving you!

[vorpal blade]

My perspective is simple. If you are interested in her, and she isn't yet married, pursue her. I have a problem with wife stealing, but as long as the girl gives her willing consent to date, you are fine. She may have a problem balancing two suitors, but it isn't your problem. May the best man win.

[wryness]

Thanks for your thoughts! I am going for it and will see what happens.

Of course, today this was complicated by The Other Guy posting a link to some "dating facts of life" article on Facebook that included something (among many other points) about people stealing other people's girlfriends/boyfriends. And he said something like "this was depressing but then I realized I just have to go for it!" Huzzah. Oh, crazy life.

[vorpal blade]

Good for you, Wryness. Go for it.

I had another thought I would like to share with you. The idea of "stealing" someone carries with it the assumption that someone can belong to someone else. When I was a child a guy could claim to own a girlfriend. She was someone who belonged to him. She was his property. Therefore if someone showed interest in her he was stealing her away from him.

In my teenage years and early adult years that changed. A girl belonged only to herself. No one owned her. She had a right to do as she pleased. She could have as many boyfriends as she wanted to have. She could date five guys in the same day, if she could work it, and no one thought she was being dishonest. Well, it might depend on what she told the guys, led them to believe, or promised them. Point being she was her own person.

Now it appears we have come back to someone becoming someone else's property. Kind of sad.

[Portia]

#agreeswithvorpal #wut

[Whistler]

perhaps a better title for this thread was "acceptability of going out with someone who is dating someone else at the same time"

[wryness]

For the record, I actually had misgivings about giving this thread the name it has, and specifically for the things Vorpal mentioned. It's just that the title of "acceptability of going out with someone who is dating someone else at the same time" doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

I recognize that the lady in question is her own person and will make her own decisions, but that doesn't mean I haven't worried about mutual friends thinking that I'm a sleazeball for "making moves" on her. And I think that shows that the interlinking ideas related to chivalry/feminism/gender roles that have influenced our society for so long are still ingrained in much of it, even if we don't explicitly recognize or desire those ideas to have an influence. Even when people talk about "stealing" someone else's girlfriend, I think many of them aren't thinking of the woman as property, but rather as a person who can make her own decisions (but who they've perhaps managed to woo). But as Vorpal pointed out, the language certainly still connotates the idea that the woman is not an agent in the process.

tl;dr - There have been enough conversations on this forum about feminism and our society's ingrained view of women that the above paragraph isn't really contributing anything new to that conversation.

[vorpal blade]

You probably have moved on from this topic by now, but I haven't been around much lately, so I'm just now reading this.

You make some good points, wryness. My previous posts were not well balanced. I can see how some people might look down on you for trying to cut in, as it were, on the dance floor. I'd like to suggest that there may be another dynamic at play here, other than an ingrained view of women.

It seems to me that people are often competitive, and don't like to lose to the point where many people don't really compete fairly. In the political sphere one politician may look for something negative to say about his opponent. Something that puts his opponent in a bad light. In commerce someone might present his own products in a way that disparages his competitor's products. In an online forum such as this, where ideas are in competition, one may attack a competitor on the basis of his personality, accuse him or her of passive aggressive behavior, making snide comments, being old and out of touch, being sexist, or whatever. The idea is to win by making your competitor look bad.

Perhaps the same sort of thing operates in the dating field. If your competitor for the affections of a young lady or gentleman can be made to look bad by accusing him or her of improper behavior, such as "stealing" someone's girlfriend or boyfriend, it might help you win the competition. It's character assassination so your competitor is put in a bad light.

[NerdGirl]

Good for you, Wryness. Go for it.

I had another thought I would like to share with you. The idea of "stealing" someone carries with it the assumption that someone can belong to someone else. When I was a child a guy could claim to own a girlfriend. She was someone who belonged to him. She was his property. Therefore if someone showed interest in her he was stealing her away from him.

In my teenage years and early adult years that changed. A girl belonged only to herself. No one owned her. She had a right to do as she pleased. She could have as many boyfriends as she wanted to have. She could date five guys in the same day, if she could work it, and no one thought she was being dishonest. Well, it might depend on what she told the guys, led them to believe, or promised them. Point being she was her own person.

Now it appears we have come back to someone becoming someone else's property. Kind of sad.

I realize this is like 2 months old now and I've only kind of skimmed the thread, but this is such a good comment.

[vorpal blade]

Thank you NerdGirl.