Humor will not be tolerated!! -Portia

Mod edit: Question 77861

Everything about this question from our dear friend 42 sent me into a cold panic.

I already own enough books to last me a lifetime and live in a city with not one, but two, excellent library systems.
I feel like I do an okay job at housekeeping: it's work and other extracurriculars (hiking, board games, acting) keeping me from reading as much as I should.
But this idea that fiction qua "waste of time"? I literally cannot think of one of my close friends who holds this view. Mathematician, engineer, fiction writer, whatever it may be, it's very integral to their -- and my -- sense of what's important. It's probably irrational for me to think this, as the guys I've seriously dated have had few other discernible hobbies BUT reading fiction, but this right here makes me terrified to get married. Can your spouse really dictate your time use and/or expenditures??

And don't even get me started on the young mothers have no luxury thing. !!! People, maybe I should get an IUD/tubal ligaton/be eternally single.

Hmmm... it's possible the question-writer is a fast reader, so she really would spend $80+ on books in a month, given the option. Since she has kids, maybe she feels like she can't take the necessary time to find old gems of books that are also cheap? I admit, I have a hard time understanding her problem--you can often find a popular used book on Amazon for $4 if it's been out a while (including S&H), and that price is competitive with DI. Also there are tons of fairly good books in the public domain, although that's another domain that could use some curation (I mean, after the Jane Austen and Jules Verne books, I'm not sure where I would go from there).

As for whether or not your spouse can dictate your expenditures, I think that depends on the couple, right?

I feel like when I was a poor college student, I never felt a lack of books to read, since I had the BYU library. Even then, my friends/professors had tons of books I hadn't read and were usually willing to loan me something. It helped that I was into classics and "literary" fiction, which seems to have plenty of cast-off copies. Reading the hot new stuff is a completely different ballgame though (and could very well turn into an expensive hobby).

I've had friends whose boyfriends/girlfriends/fiance(e)s felt like it was okay to say that movies or tv or video games or whatever was off-limits for both parties, when they didn't approve. I know it happens. But I think for the most part, one half of the couple doesn't lay down the law for the other half, and as long as you go into the relationship with expectations clear that your free time is your own, you'll be all right. I've never had a problem like that with my boyfriends.

But if your money is shared money and you're using it for something that's not a value you share, I can see how you might be self-conscious about it. My favorite marriage advice I've ever gotten is to make sure you both have kind of an allowance that you can spend on whatever the crap you want, no matter how poor you are, and the other person doesn't get any say in it. That sounds wise to me, too.

And then, yeah, Whistler's right one. Libraries can help you out, but if that doesn't work, there are cheap copies online and at thrift stores. If you go to thrift stores, it's worth going often, and looking through adult and teen fiction. The vast majority of my books have come from there, and it's true that I don't see a lot of Sanderson or John Green--those are still too new/localized--but you can still find good stuff in there, not all of it ancient, and they usually cost $1-$5. Not too shabby.

I don't get why she's shying away from digital books. I read something recently (and now I can't find it of course) that said reading on an e-reader still sets an example for kids - their brains don't take into account what you're reading on, so long as they see you reading. That may be completely false, but digital's better than nothing, and doesn't collect as much dust as the real thing.

And yes, almost all the free books on Kindles are super trashy and filled with typos. I check the app every night and read the titles of the bad romance novels to my husband and we laugh over them.

Also, I agree it sucks that her husband thinks reading is a waste of time, but I think there's that give and take in all relationships when you share money and are on a budget. Which is why I've always loved having my own bank account. (Except there isn't Chase in Tennessee so I recently closed my account and am now just using our joint checking, which was a big and terrifying step for me, even after 6 years of marriage. I do not do well with financial dependence.) I will agree that it's courteous to not spend too much on something your spouse disapproves of, and that's admirable so long as the courtesy extends both ways. For example, I really want to buy a compound miter saw (with some of my own money), but my husband disapproves, so I'm putting a pin in it, and will try to not use that against him the next time he wants to purchase something he wants.

Yeah, I had issues with the premise of this question too, but if you have a kindle (which, if I'm not mistaken, you have to have for access to the lending library), why not do digital books? Utah libraries have the Pioneer library Overdrive thing going for them. Even if she's in PG, she can spend something like $80 in a year and get access to the Orem Library (which has shared privileges with Provo) and have those libraries at her fingertips too. Maybe I'm judgmental because one of my parents' qualifications for where we lived growing up was having a good library, but there are a lot of options out there.

Overdrive with Utah Pioneer Library has been my favorite because I don't have to leave my house or worry about overdue fines, but if there are digital qualms, I really think it's worth it to pay for access to the Orem and Provo libraries in addition to PG, AF, and whichever libraries already have shared libraries.

UffishThought wrote: My favorite marriage advice I've ever gotten is to make sure you both have kind of an allowance that you can spend on whatever the crap you want, no matter how poor you are, and the other person doesn't get any say in it.

Yes. A hundred times yes. Marx spends his on video games and fried chicken; I spend mine on Starbucks, books, and yarn.

I will /never/ give up my local library card here. You guys are talking about a town having a single library with added registration giving you access to other town's libraries. And $80 a year? I have a free library card to a county-wide network of libraries with amazing facilities and large collections. And free access to the ILLiad system.

SmurfBlueSnuggie wrote:I will /never/ give up my local library card here. You guys are talking about a town having a single library with added registration giving you access to other town's libraries. And $80 a year? I have a free library card to a county-wide network of libraries with amazing facilities and large collections. And free access to the ILLiad system.

The latter doesn't preclude the former.

No, I know ILLiad is getting more common. I just didn't realize until reading this thread how lucky I am to have such an amazing library system in my home town. Seriously, I don't think anywhere in the main areas is farther than maybe 20 minutes from a nice library.

I didn't realize how good I had it when I was a kid either. I grew up in Contra Costa County, where you can check out books from any of the branches and return them to any other branch, and you can order books from other branches and have them delivered for free (I just looked it up, and there are 26 libraries in it). It would be pretty cool if Utah county could do something similar, but I'm not sure if that will happen in my lifetime.

20 branches in the Salt Lake County library system, and 6 in the City Library system. I'm a member of both.

Portia wrote:Mod edit: Question 77861
Can your spouse really dictate your time use and/or expenditures??

And don't even get me started on the young mothers have no luxury thing. !!! People, maybe I should get an IUD/tubal ligaton/be eternally single.

I didn't interpret 42's question to imply that her husband dictates how she can use her time and their money. She says

My husband sees all fiction books as a waste of time, so I need to keep my costs down out of courtesy.

Marriage is about self-sacrifice, selflessness, and doing things out of courtesy for your spouse. Yes, if you have several young children you are going to have very little time for yourself. But that is what life is about, learning to live to serve others.

My guess is the statement "sees all fiction books as a waste of time" is probably an exaggeration. However, I have known people who feel that way to some extent, and it seemed to be a common belief in Brigham Young's day. For a generation that grew up on unlimited entertainment and somehow got the idea that pleasure was the purpose of life it probably does seem strange or incomprehensible. Perhaps a better way to put it for some people is that there are good, better, and best things to do in life, and there are better things to do with your life than read fiction.

Just thought you would like a different point of view.

vorpal blade wrote: Marriage is about self-sacrifice, selflessness, and doing things out of courtesy for your spouse. Yes, if you have several young children you are going to have very little time for yourself. But that is what life is about, learning to live to serve others.

+1

Hi there. I don't come 'round these parts often- I don't think I've logged in for a year or two. But I happened to stop by notice this thread and thought I would add some background for my question. I thought about adding more details to the question itself, but I didn't want it to be an overly detailed novel! Thankfully, vorpal said a lot of what I want to say quite well.

Marriage is all about two different people trying to merge a life together. My husband is really smart - graduated with an amazing GPA, honors society, yada yada. But for whatever reason, reading does not agree with his brain as much as the average person. He spent countless hours trying to work on that in Elementary school, years hoping he wouldn't be called on to read aloud in class, and a few years cursing college professors that assigned large readings for homework. And so now, reading is something he just doesn't enjoy. If it is non-fiction and he is learning a skill he wants to learn, sure. Right now he is plowing through ebooks for his CCNA. But if he wants to relax, reading is not his choice. That's the one thing Vorpal got wrong- "waste of time" wasn't an exaggeration, it was a direct quote. He told me all fiction books are a waste of time. Movies and playing video games are also wastes of time, but we both know that sometimes, you need to waste some time to feel sane.

Unfortunately, I am terrible with that balance. I grew up a reader in large part (I think) because that's what my mom does. All day. When she has down time, she picks up a book. But I never got the hang of putting the book DOWN like she did. I either love the book, and ignore everything else in my life until it is done, or hate the book, curse the idiot author and all of the stupid characters in the book constantly, and still frantically try to find out what happens because I can't stand leaving it hanging no matter how stupid it is.

That was all fine until I had children. Kids take a lot of time, I tell you. Housework takes three times as long, because they are messing everything up as you work, and I constantly feel guilty that I don't spend more time with each child for varying reasons. But I need a break. So I would pick up a book . . . and not put it down. My husband would come home to a disastrous house, no dinner, crying kids and say "so . . . you . . . read a book today, huh?" He didn't ever forbid me from reading books, or anything like it, but one of the most important (and certainly the most difficult) thing about marriage is taking gentle and constructive criticism from someone who knows you best and using that to become a better person. Fiction books were not good for my house or my children or my marriage, so I needed to find new downtime activities.

As for why I want to skip ebooks- I want my daughter to learn from my example. I want her to love reading as much as I did - I want to catch her with a flashlight under the covers at 2am like my parents did. And right now, she sees me day to day with my nose to a screen in downtime. I switched to stupid downtime activities like Candy Crush that I was fine switching off when I need to because I hardly liked them anyway. Unfortunately, she can't visually tell the difference between me on facebook or me reading Shakespeare on my Kindle.

This same thing occurred to me with the piano recently. The same six-year-old has started lessons, and she has a lot of natural talent, but she got very easily frustrated with new songs. When I told her that I struggle learning new songs too, she didn't believe me. And then I realized that I hadn't taken the time to learn to play a new song since High School - I just sit down, play the same old songs, and then go back to folding laundry. So I decided to expand my horizons and try some new songs.

Anyway, I have bought books in the past, and my husband wouldn't stop me from buying them in the future. In fact, I don't think he's ever stopped me from a purchase- I'm kinda a cheapskate. But one thing we both agree on is to not have our lives cluttered with stuff everywhere. We live next door to a hoarder, and the boxes piled to the ceiling that we can see through his windows are a constant reminder for us. And since my husband doesn't enjoy reading, when we go through the "what can we donate" discussion, he would often ask about my books. I found a spot for my favorites, but I already hoard fabric for my sewing obsession, so . . . I'm trying to keep it down. And given how many times lately I have read a chapter or two of a book and hated it, I don't want to sink money into books my husband doesn't really want taking up space and THEN realize I don't like it anyway. If my library didn't suck (and thanks, Yayfulgirl, for backing me up on that one), then library would be perfect for me. Thankfully, the writers gave me some great thoughts on where to look.

As vorpal said "that is what life is about, learning to live to serve others." I am so glad I have my spouse and my children, because I truly believe that I am a better person now than when I had oodles of time to read books all day. My life is richer, and I gain so much from serving them. This summer I am attempting to homeschool my kids, and though it came from not wanting to pay for the expensive private school for my special needs son, I can honestly say it was one the best decisions of my life. I can't believe how much time it takes, and I currently treasure a trip to the grocery store by myself like a trip to Hawaii or something, but knowing that I can make that big of a difference in my children's lives is irreplaceable.

And with that, I have eaten up all my downtime for the moment. Ta ta! I gotta go greet my hot hubby who just walked in the door.

Thanks for stopping by, 42! From what you've said, it sounds like you're making the best choices for yourself, your marriage, and your family. I think that if many of us (in this thread) were in a similar situation, we'd respond differently, but that's because we're different people with different needs and priorities. Good luck getting it all sorted out.

Thank you, 42. It was nice to hear from you.

On Sunday my youngest daughter gave a talk in church. In the talk she mentioned some of the things she learned from me as her father. She mentioned some of the things we did together which took time. One of them was reading books outloud to her, like the Narnia series. It was all well worth it for me. But I had to tell my wife that without her love, support, and encouragment I probably would not have done those wonderful things for my children. I am a much better person because of the things marriage prompted me to do and learn.

I second what Katya said.

Katya wrote:Thanks for stopping by, 42! From what you've said, it sounds like you're making the best choices for yourself, your marriage, and your family. I think that if many of us (in this thread) were in a similar situation, we'd respond differently, but that's because we're different people with different needs and priorities. Good luck getting it all sorted out.

+1

If I find the time and energy, I may share some research about leisure time, gender and class that I've gathered in this thread. I hope people don't make the ought/is fallacy if I do so.