Humor will not be tolerated!! -Portia

http://theboard.byu.edu/questions/87466/

Dr. Occam wrote:I have several people who are very close to me in the LGBT community within the church and I know how hard it can be.

Dr. Occam, I like you generally, but no you don't. Maybe this seems kinda nitpicky, but one has to be so careful with this kind of language, and not just with ally-like issues. If you are straight, you do not know how hard it can be and you do not really understand. You can try and that is awesome, but you have privilege here and folks like this kid do not.

Also, just in general, can we stop comparing being gay to unhealthy or criminal behavior?

Also Sunday Night Banter's response bothers me but it's probably best to sleep on that one.

These answers all seem to be well-meaning, and they might even have been appropriate last year.

The November Policy made it painfully clear for any LGBT members and any progressive, Mormons-Building-Bridges, fence-sitting allies in the church–there is no place for you here. There is no softening of language. There is no middle way. There is no path up that mountain that acknowledges the reality and humanity of gay people in the Church. I'm sorry.

Mixed orientation marriages DO. NOT. WORK. Stop pointing to struggling outliers and look and the vast majority of lonely, bitter, devastated divorced couples. Stop lying to young gay people in suggesting that that's a healthy option. In fact, stop suggesting that lifetime solitude and chastity is in any way a path to happiness when EVERYTHING in the Church and the gospel points to marriage and family as the fundamental lynchpin of the plan of salvation.

Our community's LGBT youth are committing suicide at a rate far exceeding the national average. This rhetoric has a part in that statistic.

TheBlackSheep wrote:Also, just in general, can we stop comparing being gay to unhealthy or criminal behavior?

It blows my mind that Lawrence v. Texas was as recent as it was. Situation is still very dicey in several countries. :-S

Honestly, it's so so hard and you can't really understand unless you are Mormon and LGBT. I had so much faith for so long. I still pray all the time, I still live mostly the same way I always lived when I was active in the church (I do drink coffee now because it actually helps my arthritis a lot, but mostly decaf because I have sleep issues). But I just can't go. It's too hard. And I don't even have a partner and I'm not even necessarily interested in being in a relationship because I'm happy being single. And I'm not even out to most of my church friends. But it is just too emotionally and spiritually damaging for me to go to church anymore, and I can't even explain how sad that makes me.

NerdGirl wrote:Honestly, it's so so hard and you can't really understand unless you are Mormon and LGBT. I had so much faith for so long. I still pray all the time, I still live mostly the same way I always lived when I was active in the church (I do drink coffee now because it actually helps my arthritis a lot, but mostly decaf because I have sleep issues). But I just can't go. It's too hard. And I don't even have a partner and I'm not even necessarily interested in being in a relationship because I'm happy being single. And I'm not even out to most of my church friends. But it is just too emotionally and spiritually damaging for me to go to church anymore, and I can't even explain how sad that makes me.

NerdGirl, I'm so sorry. When I first stopped going to church it was something like that. It didn't have anything to do with church history or a specific lack of belief. It was just too hard. Trying to explain that to people at the time was very hard. It was a big loss, but I just couldn't go anymore.

I agree with Cognoscente's post. There are no multiple paths for gay people. Also, for the record, the church does not ask the same thing of gay and straight people. No matter what, straight people can have hope that they will find someone, even if they are asked to live in celibacy. And straight celibacy prohibitions do not include things like holding hands or kissing, which the Honor Code specifically says gay people are not to do, even if they are not having sex.

In a situation where so many young people are committing suicide or facing other terrible consequences, it is not appropriate to suggest that someone simply choose happiness. That could be an okay piece of advice if someone is dealing with run of the mill jealousy, which is a part of what the person asked. But the larger situation is that this person is gay, trying to remain active, and trying to come to grips with the reality that he will never ever ever ever ever date or marry or share intimacy with someone unless it is in a mixed-orientation marriage. There is also still a lot of guilt and shame that goes with that. Choosing to be happy or to not be such a negative nancy is often incredibly dangerous advice. It just adds a layer of guilt.

When situations are this sensitive, it is probably best not to give advice if you feel you aren't qualified to give advice, especially if the advice is to somehow feel better about foregoing an intimate personal relationship we all need and crave as humans since God will be there for you, since God would be there for you in any case.

I can't help feeling that the reason S.N.B. knows so few out gay people socially is they don't feel comfortable being/coming out to him.

I don't think that's rare in Utah/BYU. Trust me ... you know someone socially who's gay.

Craig Jessop wrote:Love is dead and I will die alone.

Craig, like me, is straight. And it struck me that this might be the closest us straight folks can come to that feeling ... the feeling immediately after THE WORST BREAKUP OF YOUR LIFE

EVERY DAMN DAY

:-S