#46795 Sexism

[vorpal blade]

I enjoyed reading the comments today on why the Twilight series is popular (Board Question 46795). I must admit that I am a little disturbed by Polly Esther’s answer to the question of why the book appeals to married women. According to “annoyed” all the married women in werf’s ward book club bemoaned the fact that their husbands were not as romantic as Edward. Polly Esther thinks that “This book is fulfilling a need that their husbands are apparently too uninformed to realize they have, or too lazy to step up and fill it themselves.” That seems a little sexist to me, and unfair to put all the blame on the husbands.

Does anyone else see a parallel to what some misguided people claim is a justification for viewing pornography? Just change the words a little. “Pornography is fulfilling a need that their wives are apparently too uninformed to realize they have, or too lazy to step up and fill it themselves.” Women are hurt enough when their husbands view pornography without having to make the wives to blame for their husband’s addiction. Why blame men for a perceived lack of romance, love, and appreciation for the loveliness of the married women who read Twilight? Are the men really at fault here?

[Katya]

I'm curious to know what, exactly, these husbands are supposed to be doing to step it up, because it seems that a lot of what's so "romantic" about Bella and Edward's relationship is, frankly, quite hard to replicate in real life.

[Cognoscente]

The "Twilight = Porn" argument is shaping up to be the new Godwin's Law! Ha ha!

[bobtheenchantedone]

No flippin' kidding, Katya. I mean, it would be nice and all to have a perfect guy like Eddie, but I realize it's not done. A lot of what Ed does is expensive. Other stuff requires him tonever have a moment for himself - it's always about Bella. : P

[Katya]

The "Twilight = Porn" argument is shaping up to be the new Godwin's Law! Ha ha!

You Nazi!

[vorpal blade]

The "Twilight = Porn" argument is shaping up to be the new Godwin's Law! Ha ha!

I wouldn't say there is anything wrong with reading "Twilight." I've read the first two books in the series.

[Cognoscente]

The "Twilight = Porn" argument is shaping up to be the new Godwin's Law! Ha ha!

I wouldn't say there is anything <i>wrong</i> with reading "Twilight." I've read the first two books in the series.

Whoa, there. Might wanna talk to your Bishop about that, buddy.

[Nanti-SARRMM]

Why blame men for a perceived lack of romance, love, and appreciation for the loveliness of the married women who read Twilight? Are the men really at fault here?

Yes men are really at fault. Why? Because all those men who work at romancing their wives are apparently putting so little effort into it that they can easily be shown up by a teenage book character. Of course if guys knew that if ignoring their love interest (because of fear of losing self control and killing her), skipping town, watching unbeknown from outside the bedroom window, following from an expensive car to protect her, having ice cold lips and biting pillows while in the heat of the moment and staring at her like a big tasty piece of steak were romantic, they would probably have done it. Now they know.

Of course, to its credit, I think the big romantic thing would be the shredded pillows. When I get married, I will have pillows waiting to be shredded. I think that would be a cool thing to try out.

[Darth Fedora]

Aw, dang. When I saw that the title of this thread was "Sexism," I thought for sure someone was going to be taking an issue with Polly Esther saying that women need to be lovely but men need to be good enough. It just seemed weird and archaic to say that women only need to be attractive enough (she did emphasize attractive in personality, I'll give her credit for that) for other people to love them, but men need to actually get stuff done. Everyone knows that there are plenty of women who are goal-driven and plenty of men who care more about others' opinions.
And that stuff about how women are driven by loveliness and romance but men are driven by fighting? Stereotype city.

[Unit of Energy]

I really don't mind that the men aren't able or don't know how to behave like Edward. While it might be all right for a imaginary person to behave the way Ed does, it would creep me out to have someone like that in real life. And I would be very concerned about friends who had boyfriends like Edward.

[Cognoscente]

Godwin'd thread!!

[Katya]

Why blame men for a perceived lack of romance, love, and appreciation for the loveliness of the married women who read Twilight? Are the men really at fault here?

Yes men are really at fault. Why? Because all those men who work at romancing their wives are apparently putting so little effort into it that they can easily be shown up by a teenage book character.

No, the whole point of escapist fiction is that it's pretty easy for fiction to "show up" real life. You might as well say that women are at fault for putting so little work into their appearance that they're less attractive than the female lead of almost any TV show.

[wired]

While the whole idea that Twilight is tantamount to pornographic material is absurd, I do not think the parallel that is being drawn between the two ought to be totally dismissed. Both create false expectations of the opposite gender based on fictional worlds where the object of display is dramatized to an impossible state of realization. That being said, both murder and over-eating stem from greed, but we cringe MUCH more when hear of murder than we do when we hear of gluttony.

It is ridiculous to hear girls swoon over a fictional character and then lament that there's no men like said character. In my opinion, it shows a girl who is too immature (and yes, I realize 40 something women have this problem too) to deal with the reality that her life is not a novel.

[Katya]

While the whole idea that Twilight is tantamount to pornographic material is absurd, I do not think the parallel that is being drawn between the two ought to be totally dismissed. Both create false expectations of the opposite gender based on fictional worlds where the object of display is dramatized to an impossible state of realization.

I agree that Twilight definitely isn't porn. I think it's probably more comparable to a movie with an unrealistically hot leading actors. There's probably nothing wrong with watching the movie, itself, but it's silly to complain that nobody in real life lives up to the unrealistic image of movie stars.

[jooniper]

I'm a married woman, and I read the Twilight series (to me, they are worth the week it takes me to read the whole series- nothing amazing, but a fun easy read).

My husband is no Edward, but he's pretty darn good for real-life. He buys me flowers or chocolates every blue moon. I give him less-than-subtle hints when he has an opportunity to woo me.
The books have definitely not made me think less of my husband- actually, if I read them for too long, they often make me attack my husband with kisses and cuddles. Too much sexual tension, makes me happy I'm a married woman (how's that for "TMI").

If false expectations set by books should be avoided, we should nix any book with a hero in it. Any book featuring someone abnormally good should not exist, because it creates the illusion that such people exist in the real world. Brad Pitt should no longer be allowed to act- believe me, HE poses much more of a threat to me being content with my husband than any fictional character ever did.
And yet, my husband doesn't feel threatened. Go figure.

[bismark]

i'll be honest, being romantic is freaking hard. girls expect a lot. what happened to my free time?!

[Nanti-SARRMM]

Why blame men for a perceived lack of romance, love, and appreciation for the loveliness of the married women who read Twilight? Are the men really at fault here?

Yes men are really at fault. Why? Because all those men who work at romancing their wives are apparently putting so little effort into it that they can easily be shown up by a teenage book character.

No, the whole point of escapist fiction is that it's pretty easy for fiction to "show up" real life. You might as well say that women are at fault for putting so little work into their appearance that they're less attractive than the female lead of almost any TV show.

Umm, yes. That was my point, however ineffectively written. I was trying to be sarcastic, and failed apparently.
I must now read internet sarcasm for dummies again.

[Wisteria]

cognoscente, that "Mein Kampfy Chair" picture made me laugh out loud. Oh, dear.

[Katya]

Yes men are really at fault. Why? Because all those men who work at romancing their wives are apparently putting so little effort into it that they can easily be shown up by a teenage book character.

No, the whole point of escapist fiction is that it's pretty easy for fiction to "show up" real life. You might as well say that women are at fault for putting so little work into their appearance that they're less attractive than the female lead of almost any TV show.

Umm, yes. That was my point, however ineffectively written. I was trying to be sarcastic, and failed apparently.
I must now read internet sarcasm for dummies again.

Ah, sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Nanti-SARRMM]

Ah, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Nah, don't worry about it. It was my fault for being ambiguous.


And yes, those pictures are funny.