byu bookstore

bismark · Post by **bismark** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:21 pm

then tell people like your dad to help the bookstore figure out a real business model.

Post by **Laser Jock** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:25 pm

Bismark, I still don't see why this information should be "freely available" from the Bookstore when (a) they spend money to gather it, and (b) it's freely available elsewhere. What you're saying is equivalent to asking retailers to publish their full inventories so that consumers can more easily shop around and so their competitors can match their prices and selection.

Obviously, retailers don't do this. In fact, if you're actively collecting prices for a competitor, a store will escort you from the premises and ban you from returning. Could this be considered anticompetitive, in some sense? Sure. You could make similar arguments that they should make all their product and pricing information freely available. But is it reasonable to expect that they won't publish such information? I think so.

And there's still no barrier to anyone else doing exactly what the Bookstore does, nor to students finding the information themselves and shopping around. You've claimed that such a barrier exists, but I don't see it. I do see accusations of strong-arming and actively working to keep others from the same information, but I'd like to see proof before accepting such claims. The burden of proof is on you.

Also, bismark, I haven't insulted you or used demeaning nicknames, and I've tried to avoid condescension. I'd appreciate if you did me the same courtesy.

bismark · Post by **bismark** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:07 am

then never question my understanding of the english language.

the proof of strong-arming is right in front of us: the DU published a story about the bookstore policies and the bookstore yanked all of its advertising.

also a recent letter to the editor talked about a rudely written letter from the bookstore in response to a question about posting the book list earlier. not to mention the stories each semester of students getting an ear-full for just flipping through a book while in the store. such defensiveness throws up some big red flags in my mind.

and again, why hasn't someone already aggregated such a list? certainly the economic incentive exists: this semester, my textbooks cost $498 at the bookstore and $176 online. where is the entrepreneur that puts out the list a month early and charges $5 for access?

has anyone actually emailed all of their professors early to get textbook info? have they always quickly responded and given out the info? have there been any who have refused or just ignored your request? do you really think professors want 20-200 emails a month before the semester requesting textbook information? before you all start becoming bookstore apologists, i think you should answer those questions. the proof that the bookstore acts like a child and takes its toys home if people don't play by its rules is already apparent.

OptimusPrime · Post by **OptimusPrime** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:02 pm

bismark wrote:this is an age old problem, so why hasn't someone else stepped up to bat? i think the only logical explanation is that the bookstore has more direct access to the information and probably strong arms departments into not releasing it earlier...the bookstore does not have to compete with other sources because it makes itself the only source.

Since being a jerk seems to be fair game with you, I'd just like to say quit being such an argumentative douchebag and think the situation through for a second.

The Bookstore collects book information because they have a financial interest in doing so in order to purchase books in time for the start of each semester. They release this information as a public service (since it is more in their financial interest to keep that list internally and have students come into their store for that information where they are more likely to buy the book) as the unofficial list keeper. Professors make an effort to get their lists of required books to the Bookstore in time because they have an interest in having students with books and they know many students will either purchase their books from the Bookstore or check the list provided to buy them elsewhere. If there was another popular list, professors would probably send information to them as well. Let's call this monopoly by default.

So let's provide competition. bismark, the uncapitalized genius entrepreneur, decides he will topple Big Book by contacting every professor of every class and demanding a book list from each of them. As he does this, he realizes that professors are often undecided on which books to use, or don't respond back in a timely fashion and don't get back to him until just a couple weeks before classes start (I'll bet the Bookstore never has this problem). Undaunted, he compiles what he has onto a brilliantly designed website and charges $5 for access to this list weeks before the Bookstore publishes theirs. He spends a few hundred dollars spreading the word through advertising (the DU needs your support!), then sits back to watch the cash roll in. Imagine his surprise when one guy puts up the $5, then emails the list to all his friends, who forward it along to all their friends, and bismark, the uncapitalized genius entrepreneur, realizes he's depending on the honesty and integrity of his customers to not put him out of business (funny how that works). Good luck.

In short, the only reason the Bookstore has a "monopoly" on this information is because they are the only ones with a financial interest in gathering it. Any implications of strong-arming on the Bookstore's part is a stretch at best. Unless you were to start a rival brick-and-mortar bookstore in Provo, there is no incentive to creating a better list. The only viable solution I can think of is an open-source online list where everyone finds out what books they need for their classes, then contributes their classes to the list as a whole. Would you trust a list created by your peers? Or perhaps a service that buys your books for you online. So why hasn't anyone done that? College is too short, and it's just not worth the effort. Monopoly by apathy.

I've been there and done that. I've stuck it to the Man and bought books online, but even if they hadn't come two weeks after class started (one never came at all) I went back to BYU Bookstore to buy my books. I was willing to pay a little extra to handle the actual book so I knew it was in good condition, have the book immediately, know that it's the correct book, know that it's not some quasi-legal international version, and know that I can return it should the need arise. Buying cheap online sounds great until your order never comes, you get the wrong version, or you decide to change your schedule and you're stuck. As far as I'm concerned, the price difference ends up being peanuts anyway compared to the earning potential of a good degree.

I think you're underestimating the demand for a bookstore on campus. Not everyone is interested in the tedium of finding the right book online from a reputable seller. If the Bookstore went under, you'd have irate letters to the Editor demanding to know how the University can require textbooks but have no way to provide them. "Waaa, I went online to look for some and couldn't find any! How am I supposed to take my class??? Every other University has a bookstore, why can't BYU? I had to rearrange my schedule at the beginning of the semester and now I'm 2 weeks behind in my book work because BYU is a stupid face and doesn't have a bookstore."

There are many worthy things to get your panties in a bunch about, but this just isn't one of them. If it bothers you that the Bookstore uses its list as a competitive advantage, decide your schedule early, contact your professors, and buy your books online. If you're ok with paying more in overhead for the benefits of a local brick-and-mortar, use the Bookstore.

Oh, and since I appear to be a Bookstore apologist, I'll answer your questions. Yes, I have emailed my professors about books. Yes, they have been as timely as they could be, usually referring me to an online syllabus from a current or past semester listing the book to be used. I doubt they want 200 emails every semester, but if they got it, perhaps that would be the incentive someone needs to make a change to the system. In the meantime, I believe most professors would answer them all. In my experience, BYU professors are quite nice and reasonable (in contrast to some uncapitalized internet forum junkies).

Portia · Post by **Portia** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:34 pm

I agree that the pulling of the advertisements was ridiculous, looks bad, and makes disgruntled students cast suspicion on the bookstore even more.

This semester, I have heard just as many complaints from the professors: the bookstore putting the books for one class under another, not ordering the books at all, etc., etc.

Depending on the course, ebrary, Google Books, and the library can work well, especially if you ordered online and are waiting.

bismark · Post by **bismark** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:37 pm

optimusprime, are you sure you're getting enough love from your wife these days?

ok, fine, i will start a new thread about the evils of high fructose corn syrup if you guys are bored of this one.

Whistler · Post by **Whistler** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:26 am

bah ha ha, nice one, Optimus.

OptimusPrime · Post by **OptimusPrime** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:38 pm

High fructose corn syrup... now that's an evil I can agree with! Also, add aspartame, sucralose, and saccharin to that list.

Portia · Post by **Portia** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:04 pm

bismark wrote:other textbook buyer/seller businesses would pop up to fill the need if the bookstore went under.

Bookstore bailout! It's an essential utility that we cannot afford to let fail! Hundreds will lose their jobs. Joe the Fudge Seller will become Joe the Crack Dealer. Do I hear $400 billion, people?

bismark · Post by **bismark** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:59 am

bite me whistler.

Nanti-SARRMM · Post by **Nanti-SARRMM** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:50 am

bismark wrote:bite me whistler.

What is this, the Donner Party? At least let him have some salt to go with the bite.

Whistler · Post by **Whistler** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:18 pm

bismark wrote:bite me whistler.

any preferences as to where?

Nanti-SARRMM · Post by **Nanti-SARRMM** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:34 pm

Whistler wrote:
bismark wrote:bite me whistler.
any preferences as to where?

I was kidding about the salt thing Whistler, you don't actually have to bite him. I mean he hangs around computers all day, he probably tastes like a computer.

Although, if you still want to bite him you could try some bismark-imitation meat from Wal-mart, it's not like their meat is from real animals anyway.

Better yet, go to the deli section one evening in Macey's located in Orem and ask for their secret stache of meat, it's 110% Grade A human meat. You'll need to ask if they have anything that tastes like chicken. They'll probably refer you to their chicken, and then you say "Like chicken, but with opposable thumbs". That is the pass-phrase so they know you're not a health inspector. They'll lead you to the back and show what they have.

You'll probably want the Irish Computer Nerd meat for the red hair seasoning. If not there is the traditional white-trash computer geek sampling.

I do warn you not to ask too many questions back there though, they've never had any board writer meat before.

Whistler · Post by **Whistler** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:23 pm

aww give him a break, he does more than "hang around computers all day."