49892 - Fasting

[vorpal blade]

I would definitely be that poor if I wasn't living at home.

That's interesting. I realize everyone has a different situation. When I went to BYU I used only my own money which I had earned during the summer. I always had plenty to eat. I now pay for room and board in the dorms for my children when they are freshmen. After that we send them a fixed amount of money to cover room and board expenses, but I'm not always sure they are getting enough money. They don't complain, however. I wonder if my daughter is getting enough to eat. The problem doesn't seem to be that she doesn't have enough money, however. Sometimes she will eat out of the vending machines because it is convenient and saves time. Sometimes all she has to eat in the day is a bag of M&Ms. Despite what we tell her about the benefits of proper nutrition. What is a parent to do? Anyway, I'm just curious about the hungry children in the world, particularly at BYU.

[bismark]

that makes me sad.

aren't there student loans/grants/scholarships/jobs to help with that?

[Unit of Energy]

Don't worry too much about me. I do have a food storage. I don't like to eat beans and rice much, so I avoid it if I can, but I have it.

[TheAnswerIs42]

I just wanted to toss in my two cents for not fasting while nursing or pregnant. I was taught that even if I don't feel any adverse affects, and even if it won't do permanent harm to my baby (because, as was pointed out, many women can't keep food down), it is a critical stage for nutrition in a baby's life and it is better if it get all the nutrients it can. The "What to Expect" book says "never fast during pregnancy", because your baby only gets food from what you are eating. Hence pre-natal vitamins. Also, it apparntly can induce labor in ladies approaching that time. During nursing, your body will tap your own stores of nutrients around your body if you don't eat what you need to each day, but during pregnancy, it can't. And for me, I feel it. Especially during pregnancy, but even now while nursing- my body gets drained twice as fast from fasting. During my first pregnancy, I almost passed out while teaching because I couldn't eat often enough- I was soon ordered to start eating protien bars in-between classes. There is a reason they ask that we don't make kids fast, so I don't make my baby "fast".

But as usual, it is totally up to each individual person to make their own judgement. That's just how I feel. I remember when I was dating my husband, and I went to get a drink of water from the water fountain, and he looked at me like I had grown a second head. It had honestly NEVER OCCURED TO ME that I shouldn't do that, but I figured he was right and I stopped that.

To each their own.

[NerdGirl]

To me the thing about fasting is that it should bring you closer to God, and if you're doing it in such a way that you're completely miserable or you get very sick, then I don't think it's accomplishing its purpose. I think that some people need to drink water when they fast and some people don't, and either way is fine. I personally can't go without eating because of medication that I'm on, so my version of fasting is to just eat very simply and eat the minimum amount. Because of when my branch meets, I actually have to eat and drink something in the middle of church every Sunday, and I usually hide in the bathroom and do it on fast Sunday because I don't want to hear five different people freaking out and telling me that it's fast Sunday and what the heck am I doing eating a rice cake and drinking a water bottle in the hallway????? (This has actually happened.) I think that to fast you just need to go as far on the not eating train (or however else you choose to fast if you can't not eat) as you need to in order to feel like you are doing something different that helps you focus on the purpose of your fast without going so far that you feel so horrible that you can't even focus on why you were fasting in the first place.

And thanks for the quote from Gospel Principles, Vorpal. I may just bring my copy with me to church next Sunday in case anyone feels the need to call me to repentance for eating my rice cake.

[Nanti-SARRMM]

I also have some friends who served in northern Mexico where it was very hot, and they said that the mission president told them to only fast from food and to keep drinking water, otherwise they'd get dehydrated from the sun and all that. So I definitely believe that it is to each his own.

On another note, when did you all start fasting? My parents started me out around the age of 8, starting with only one meal and working up slowly to the 24 hour/two meal fast at age 12.

[bismark]

i was told the same thing, and i served in tokyo.

[Unit of Energy]

I was always given the choice of whether to fast or not. It was clear from when I was little that I should be, but never did my parents tell me that you have to fast. They started to really encourage me when I was 8. I don't ever remember fasting only one meal. The rule in my house was always you can eat when you get home from church. This did mean skipping dinner the night before, depending on when church was.

[vorpal blade]

I started fasting when I was 8 years old. It was the same fast my parents observed - 24 hours. I was given to understand that I had little choice in the matter.

[vorpal blade]

And thanks for the quote from Gospel Principles, Vorpal. I may just bring my copy with me to church next Sunday in case anyone feels the need to call me to repentance for eating my rice cake.

Here is more of the quote:

One Sunday each month Latter-day Saints observe a fast day. On this day we neither eat nor drink for two consecutive meals, thus making a fast of twenty-four hours. If we were to eat our evening meal on Saturday, then we would not eat or drink until the evening meal on Sunday.

Everyone who can do so should fast. However, “many are subject to weakness, others are delicate in health, and others have nursing babies; of such it should not be required to fast. Neither should parents compel their little children to fast” (Gospel Doctrine, p. 244).

We should encourage our children to fast after they have been baptized, but we should never force them. The fast day is a special day for us to humble ourselves before the Lord in fasting and prayer. It is a day to pray for forgiveness from our sins and for the power to overcome our faults and to forgive others.

On fast Sunday, members of the Church meet together and partake of the sacrament. They strengthen themselves and one another by bearing testimony in fast and testimony meeting.

I read this on the Church website, gospel topics, fasting. The source is: "Chapter 25: Fasting,” Gospel Principles, 165

You're welcome.

[Unit of Energy]

My parent's were always very clear that they expected us to fast, but they never forced us too. They also taught us that fasting is for us and if we aren't actively participating and trying to receive the spiritual benefits, then you are just starving your self. Which is why they did not force us to fast.

[bobtheenchantedone]

Sounds just like my parents, UoE.

[TheAnswerIs42]

I remember my parents didn't ask us to until after we turned 8. I know that because I remember being 7 and gloating as I ate breakfast in front of my older brothers. So cruel . . .

[Tao]

One thing that stuck out at me from vorpal's quote was the conspicuous lack of mentioning first Sunday. I recall one month where my stake president requested the members of our ward not to fast on the first Sunday and to choose a later weekend instead.

[NerdGirl]

My mom has told me that when she first joined the church in the late 50's, they didn't have "Fast Sunday", but they had "Fast Day" once a month and it was usually on a week day. Maybe Gospel Principles was written before "Fast Day" turned into "Fast Sunday". Actually, I'm pretty sure that it was written before my mom joined the church.

My parents didn't really make a big deal out of fasting. They told us that we could try it if we wanted to, and I did a few times when I was 11, but one time I passed out while I was fasting and my parents and I decided I shouldn't fast anymore for the time being. A couple of years after that I started taking medication that required me to eat regularly, so it's been pretty much out of the question ever since then.

I have a friend whose parents did something rather interesting as a way of introducing them to the idea of fasting. When they turned 8, they started out by waiting an hour after they woke up on fast Sunday to eat breakfast. This gradually turned into not eating breakfast at all, and then eventually by age 12 into not eating dinner the night before. There was a very detailed schedule for when the gradual changes happened, and they did that with all 7 of the kids in the family. I thought that was kind of a good way to do it, but if I were to do something like that with my kids, I would make it an optional thing for them (my friend's parents forced them to fast, and I think that's a really bad idea).

[Nanti-SARRMM]

One thing that stuck out at me from vorpal's quote was the conspicuous lack of mentioning first Sunday. I recall one month where my stake president requested the members of our ward not to fast on the first Sunday and to choose a later weekend instead.

Isn't that how it is with General Conference; Fast Sunday becomes the week before or after to allow for Testimony meeting.

[bobtheenchantedone]

I think we've slacked off as a family with the whole why-we-fast thing. When I was younger, we fasted, and we didn't like it, but we knew why we fasted and knew about the difference between fasting and starving and all that. Right now my sister, who is ten, fasts, but only under duress. She doesn't know why we do it.

[vorpal blade]

On the lds.org website, under Gospel Topics, Fast and Fast Offerings, it says:

Fast Sunday

The Church designates one Sunday each month, usually the first Sunday, as a day of fasting. Proper observance of fast Sunday includes going without food and drink for two consecutive meals, attending fast and testimony meeting, and giving a fast offering to help care for those in need.

A fast offering should be at least the value of the two meals not eaten. When possible, we should be generous and give much more than this amount.

In addition to observing the fast days set aside by Church leaders, we can fast on any other day, according to our needs and the needs of others. However, we should not fast too frequently or for excessive periods of time.

[Katya]

I've been thinking about this topic a lot, especially about why it is that we have the idea that, where fasting is concerned, being harder on your body makes you more righteous. It seems to be a very deeply ingrained idea — you'll notice that even though The Answer says it's up to each individual person to make a personal judgment, she assumed her husband was "right" when she discovered that his fast was stricter than hers. And, as Nanti relates, some missionaries apparently don't pay enough attention to their bodies and their common sense to realize that going without water in a hot climate is very dangerous, so their mission president has to specifically tell them that they need to drink water during their fast.

And yet, in all of this, there's been no mention of the benefits of fasting. If fasting were its own end — if the point was to be hungry and weak and miserable — then yes, more would automatically be better. But that's not the point. And if you're not focusing on what are supposed to be the actual spiritual benefits of keeping a commandment, then you'll never be able to judge if your sacrifice is acceptable. (It would be like praying for hours every day, without ever learning to listen for answers.)

Isaiah 58 lays out the blessings of fasting, including giving food to the poor and hungry and clothing to the naked. So, being able to give a fast offering is part of it, but there's much more. Other blessings include (spiritual) light, health, protection, being able to call upon the Lord, being guided by Him, having a soul that doesn't feel empty, and even laying the foundation for healing and restoring many generations.

Of course, another benefit of pushing your body as hard as possible is engaging in "competitive fasting," i.e., feeling superior to others because your fast is harder. But Isaiah has some pretty harsh words for those who fast with the wrong spirit. He warns against those who fast but scornfully "put forth of the finger" (i.e., in mockery). Christ, likewise, has strong words for those who fast "to be seen of men." (NerdGirl, I recommend quoting Isaiah 58:9 to the next person who gives you crap for not fasting. )

It's possible that you're pushing your body harder, not out of a sense of superiority, but just to be on the "safe side." I.e., you might as well err on the side of doing more, just in case it's what God really wants. However, we have specifically been told that our bodies are temples and that we are to take care of them as such, so being harder on your body doesn't automatically make you "safer" because responsibly taking care of our bodies is also a sacred commandment (let along responsibly caring for a growing body within you — I loved what The Answer had to say about this). So the only way to know if you're actually offering the appropriate fast that God wants from you, individually, is to judge your fast based on the blessings promised and to turn to Him for help and guidance if you've reached the limits of your understanding.

I love the guidelines that the Church gives because they're such a good place to start, as a default. But we have to realize that, often, when there's a bit of leeway given in a guideline, it's not because there's a secretly implied "right" interpretation, but because what God truly wants from each of us is different, according to our physical and spiritual state, and according to whatever other responsibilities and pressures He has also given us. And if you learn to ask Him, directly, if your offering is sufficient, that will hopefully give you the strength to not worry about what anyone else thinks about your choices.

[NerdGirl]

I love the guidelines that the Church gives because they're such a good place to start, as a default. But we have to realize that, often, when there's a bit of leeway given in a guideline, it's not because there's a secretly implied "right" interpretation, but because what God truly wants from each of us is different, according to our physical and spiritual state, and according to whatever other responsibilities and pressures He has also given us. And if you learn to ask Him, directly, if your offering is sufficient, that will hopefully give you the strength to not worry about what anyone else thinks about your choices.

Amen to that!