I was interested in the responses by Laser Jock and Marzipan about Mormon Bachelor Pad. I'm curious if any readers have opinions.
In your experience, are RMs often as illustrated on the blog?
How do you feel about it?
#55738 MBP
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NerdGirl
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Yeah, I'm also curious about this. In my experience, most of the guys I know well are not like this. There's always the possibility, of course, that I just don't know them well enough to realize that the really are like the MBP guys, but I know some guys pretty well and I feel pretty confident in saying that they are nothing like those guys.
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bobtheenchantedone
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Unfortunately, I know quite a few people, male and female, many returned missionaries, who have similar casual attitudes towards the opposite gender. Since it isn't accepted in the community to have sex, they do all but that, and enjoy themselves along the way. In a different community, without a strong moral backing, even that may fail.
Personally, I only kissed one girl that I was not in love with, and I regret it to this day. I know of a few individuals who have decided not to kiss anyone before marriage, and while individuals such as those of this blog might frown on that, I think that it isn't a bad idea.
Personally, I only kissed one girl that I was not in love with, and I regret it to this day. I know of a few individuals who have decided not to kiss anyone before marriage, and while individuals such as those of this blog might frown on that, I think that it isn't a bad idea.
See, and that's weird to me too! I don't know any girls that are really okay with being treated that way, or even observing/hearing about such behavior. I only personally knew one girl who engaged in NCMO. And that was strange to me. Maybe I was just sheltered in ye olde C____ Apartments...Marduk wrote:Agreed. It tests my faith in the opposite sex.What surprises me is how many of their followers are female.
Follow-up question, almost identical to my previous one: Do you know a lot of girls like the ones commenting on that blog? Marduk says it tests his faith to know there are girls like that; is that how you feel? (You being guys or girls.)
Anyway, thanks for responding. A modicum of hope in society has been restored to my heart.
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Cognoscente
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Seriously? Seriously? That's an horrible idea. I've heard stories of sanctimonious people who talk about giving their first kiss "over the altar" but I thought that was just an ugly Utah stereotype.Marduk wrote:I know of a few individuals who have decided not to kiss anyone before marriage, and while individuals such as those of this blog might frown on that, I think that it isn't a bad idea.
Kissing is beautiful! There's nothing wrong with showing affection. It's up to the individual or couple to set their own personal boundaries with regards to that affection, but for heaven's sake Mormons already have enough hangups about sexuality. We certainly don't need more.
And the girls fascinated with the blog aren't shallow or lascivious. They aren't attracted by the shamelessness, they're attracted by the confidence. Say what you will about the dudes writing that blog, they are supremely confident in themselves and don't apologize for pursuing their own goals. That's what turns people on. That's why some alpha males will have 4 or 5 girls actively competing for their affection even if they are a jerk, while the shy and apologetic bookish type will be a complete gentleman to ladies and rarely get a second date.
Early to bed and early to rise
Precludes you from seeing the most brilliant starry nights
Precludes you from seeing the most brilliant starry nights
No, there is nothing inherently wrong with kissing before marriage. My point is that it isn't necessary. Especially for individuals who have a hard time controlling those impulses, why gamble? It certainly is possible to determine all elements of compatibility without engaging in any form of physical intimacy, up to and including kissing. It is only sanctimonious if they preach and advocate that others follow the same example, which these individuals do not. It was only a personal decision.
I do understand the appeal of this blog. But I certainly find nothing appealing in it. Ideally, it wouldn't take this kind of brash selfishness to be successful in the dating world, but as it is true of the dating world at large, so we who claim moral superiority over that world are frequently no better. You say "supremely confident in themselves and (unapologetic)", I say supremely shameless and prideful, and incapable of recieving correction. IF they are that arrogant even in the intimate relationship of marriage, then heaven help whatever spouse eventually finds themselves there.
I do understand the appeal of this blog. But I certainly find nothing appealing in it. Ideally, it wouldn't take this kind of brash selfishness to be successful in the dating world, but as it is true of the dating world at large, so we who claim moral superiority over that world are frequently no better. You say "supremely confident in themselves and (unapologetic)", I say supremely shameless and prideful, and incapable of recieving correction. IF they are that arrogant even in the intimate relationship of marriage, then heaven help whatever spouse eventually finds themselves there.
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Cognoscente
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I agree with your other points but holy crap do I disagree with this statement. So. Much.Marduk wrote:No, there is nothing inherently wrong with kissing before marriage. My point is that it isn't necessary. Especially for individuals who have a hard time controlling those impulses, why gamble? It certainly is possible to determine all elements of compatibility without engaging in any form of physical intimacy, up to and including kissing.
No reasonable individual could so abuse the slippery slope fallacy as to imply that a young couple "gambling" with giving each other smooches is in danger of fornicating. That's ludicrous, and frankly a little insulting to your peers.
It is enormously important (yes, I would say necessary) to develop intimacy and show physical affection during the dating and courtship process. It's a unique way of communicating love that words alone will not equal. I'll concede that it IS more important for some than others -- we all have different ways of communicating love. But I maintain that a couple that refrains from any physical affection whatsoever before marriage is setting itself up for awkwardness, confusion, frustration, and a steep learning curve in their first year of marriage.
Early to bed and early to rise
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Precludes you from seeing the most brilliant starry nights
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TheAnswerIs42
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I think I'd like to toss my two cents into this pot. I have personally never kissed anyone other than my husband. My husband has never kissed anyone but me. But our first kiss was when we were dating, long before we thought we might marry each other. As he put it, he didn't kiss other girls he dated because he reserved that for someone he really felt strongly about. And then it just really worked out. We have both said many times that we liked that neither of us had kissed anyone else- it wouldn't have ruined anything, to be sure. But it is rather nice to know.
That having been said, I am glad I didn't wait until we were actually married. Wow, that's a zero to sixty in one night I'm glad I didn't have to go through. Granted, our engagement was really . . . trying our resolve. But that's because it was too long, not because we <gasp> kissed.
As for MBP- wow, yeah, I didn't know anyone up for that much NCMO personally. But I guess they are out there. Confidence is an attractive thing, don't get me wrong, but treating displays of AFFECTION that flippantly is a rather huge turn off in my book.
That having been said, I am glad I didn't wait until we were actually married. Wow, that's a zero to sixty in one night I'm glad I didn't have to go through. Granted, our engagement was really . . . trying our resolve. But that's because it was too long, not because we <gasp> kissed.
As for MBP- wow, yeah, I didn't know anyone up for that much NCMO personally. But I guess they are out there. Confidence is an attractive thing, don't get me wrong, but treating displays of AFFECTION that flippantly is a rather huge turn off in my book.
Again, it isn't my personal policy. But it is something that they decided to do, and you know what? It worked for them. Talking with my friend about it, he said, "you know, (Marduk), it is something that (my future wife) was pretty adamant about, and it gave us more time to get to know each other intellectually and emotionally. If I could do the dating over again, I would do it the same way. I don't think it was any more awkward than it otherwise would have been."
They now have a child and are happy as can be. And let me clarify what I meant about "gambling". I wasn't suggesting that kissing inevitably leads to sex. But certainly a lot of sin can occur between two people who remain virgins. I think any time you engage in romantic behavior, anything from kissing to sex itself, and everything in between, with the intent of personal satisfaction, rather than expressing love and affection, that it is immoral. So for an individual who has a hard time keeping one's actions selfless, one can avoid playing with the fire at all.
I also find it somewhat odd to maintain that we need to kiss and show other physical intimacies before marriage in order to not be awkward, confused, or frustrated. I'm reminded of the argument a friend of mine had for his many romantic trysts before settling down and looking for a wife. "(Marduk), if you don't learn how to have sex before you get married, how are you going to know how to satisfy your wife?"
They now have a child and are happy as can be. And let me clarify what I meant about "gambling". I wasn't suggesting that kissing inevitably leads to sex. But certainly a lot of sin can occur between two people who remain virgins. I think any time you engage in romantic behavior, anything from kissing to sex itself, and everything in between, with the intent of personal satisfaction, rather than expressing love and affection, that it is immoral. So for an individual who has a hard time keeping one's actions selfless, one can avoid playing with the fire at all.
I also find it somewhat odd to maintain that we need to kiss and show other physical intimacies before marriage in order to not be awkward, confused, or frustrated. I'm reminded of the argument a friend of mine had for his many romantic trysts before settling down and looking for a wife. "(Marduk), if you don't learn how to have sex before you get married, how are you going to know how to satisfy your wife?"
Kissing is overrated. Anyone who has sat through my (hours long) recounting of all the girls I kissed while at BYU realizes that if anyone this, it is me. However, kissing my fiancee is pretty awesome.
As far as the blog? Meh, I'm glad I am done with the Mormon dating culture. It sucked while I was in the middle of it and by the looks of the blog, it still sucks.
As far as the blog? Meh, I'm glad I am done with the Mormon dating culture. It sucked while I was in the middle of it and by the looks of the blog, it still sucks.
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Giovanni Schwartz
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Laser Jock
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