Romantic chivalry

[FauxRaiden]

As a general rule I agree with chivalry though I don't limit it to women. I'll open doors for anyone and quite often I'll pay for a friends meal just to be nice. It isn't about respect to women or anything, I just think it's a nice thing to do.

As for opening car doors? I think that's an extremely dated custom and one that doesn't hold water anymore. Unless the women has expressed her desire for it, it just creates more awkward situations than it helps. Now if I want to do it out of niceness then that's fine. But if I have to do the car door (or anything) because of an expectation, I think that's flat out wrong. Women should not 'expect' their man to do it. If they do it that's fine, if not then there's other problems.

[vorpal blade]

My wife expects it. To her it means that I care about her. If I don't open the car door for her it means to her that I care only for myself.

[bobtheenchantedone]

What kind of opening? If it's getting in, it's sometimes nice for him to unlock my door before he goes around to his, but I don't really care whether he chooses to or not. If it's getting out, I would feel way too awkward sitting in a car and waiting for him to come around.

[thebigcheese]

I used to hang out with a guy who would literally run all the way around to my side of the car, just to let me out. He insisted on doing this every time I got out of the car. And if I ever beat him to it, or if he forgot, he apologized profusely. He's one of the stranger dudes I've come across...

My only chivalry issue with my current fellow is the fact that sometimes he gets carried away with the "let me help you carry that" bit. He overloads himself, just so I don't have to carry anything...and then I just feel awkward and useless. A lesson to the gents here: even if she can't carry all of it, she probably wants to help you with some of it. Sharing is caring.

[vorpal blade]

Both when we get into the car and when we get out. She waits patiently for me to come around and open the door for her. It helps if she unlocks the door before I get there. When we had been dating for a long time I actually opened my door and let her slide over to the middle. Seemed more efficient than opening her side of the car and making her slide all the way over to my side of the car. Cars were bigger back then.

[FauxRaiden]

I still have to tend to disagree with you vorpal and whoever else.

I just think it's a dated custom and when someone expects you to do it to show that you "care" it seems to me that they're showing how much they don't care. I would think that if the two of you are involved enough that it shouldn't matter at that point. The little things are nice, but I would much prefer a man(woman?) to be comfortable enough with me to be past that. Like I said, it's a nice thing to do but the expectation as I've said just seems rude.

[vorpal blade]

Maybe so, FauxRaiden, but don't forget I'm ancient.

[NerdGirl]

Maybe so, FauxRaiden, but don't forget I'm ancient.

This is true. My mom, who is even older than you, says that they used to teach the girls in home ec all the things the men were supposed to do, like open your car door and walk closer to the road, and it was considered incredibly rude if a man didn't do those things.

[vorpal blade]

Exactly, NerdGirl.

[Dragon Lady]

I once had a guy take me on a walk and he made a point to always be closer to the road, even if it meant switching sides. I was utterly amazed. I've respected him so much more ever since. And while I don't expect that kind of treatment at all, the simple fact that he did it anyway made me feel like he really cared about me.

I don't think guys should open doors, etc. because it's expected. I think they should do it because they care. Saying such, I know, is beating a dead horse in here, but it's true. If a guy doesn't want to, fine. But a guy that does it because he does want to automatically goes up 20 points in my book. Don't do it to a point of being awkward, but do go out of your way to show a little extra bit of caring.

And though I'm not quite as ancient as vorpal, I've long since wondered if I think anciently. At least in terms of how guys should treat girls. So all you young ducks, feel free to disregard my views if they don't fit in with modern, hip, and cool ways.

[Unit of Energy]

I'm not saying that either way is necessarily right or wrong. But I personally prefer to have my car door opened for me to get in, I like to be walked to my door, I like not to be forced into the road when walking. I don't expect these things, but I love it when they happen.

Edit: I'm not that old either, I'm only 21.

[thebigcheese]

I like to be walked to my door

I think this one depends on the circumstances. For example, if the door is literally five or ten feet away from the car (like if the driveway is right next to the front door), then I think it's more awkward for him to get out of the car and have this formal doorstep scene. But if the door is further than that, it's dark, and my neighbors are creepy, I would feel much better if the guy walks me to my door. At the very least, he shouldn't drive away until I am safely inside.

I once heard about an incident back home where some girl was getting dropped off, and the guy in the car drove away before she was inside. Apparently, there was some creeper hiding in the bushes that night and the girl ended up being killed. Scary stuff. Always makes me a little nervous when I get dropped off at night...

[Wisteria]

This is part of why I always wait for the person to get inside the house when I drop someone off at night.

[Carrapicho]

While we were dating, my now-husband always got my car door for me when entering the car. It's something that I miss now, since he is occupied by putting our 2-year-old in his car seat while I get in the car myself. But whenever we get a chance to go somewhere alone, he always opens the door. It makes me feel special and loved--and I know he does it because he wants to, and because it's one of the ways he shows me respect.

As for being walked to the door, I did appreciate it--or being walked to my car, if I drove that night or something. Maybe it's old-fashioned, but it just felt to me like I was worth spending that much more time with, even if it only meant an extra 30 seconds together.

[vorpal blade]

I still have to tend to disagree with you vorpal and whoever else.

I just think it's a dated custom and when someone expects you to do it to show that you "care" it seems to me that they're showing how much they don't care. I would think that if the two of you are involved enough that it shouldn't matter at that point. The little things are nice, but I would much prefer a man(woman?) to be comfortable enough with me to be past that. Like I said, it's a nice thing to do but the expectation as I've said just seems rude.

I'd like to point out that part of loving someone is to do nice things for them, in the way they want to be treated. A lot of people make gifts, not on the basis of what the other person really wants, but in the way we want to give the gift. My wife might think that a new sewing machine is a great gift, but if she gives me a sewing machine for Christmas I'm not so happy as when she puts some thought into what would please me.

It makes my wife happy, and makes her feel loved if I am chivalrous, and open the door for her. So I do it because I know that is the kind of "gift" that she wants to receive. If she didn't care for this gift I wouldn't give it. In a relationship I think we need to clearly communicate what would make us happy if the other did for us. Of course, we ought not to be too demanding in the gifts that we must receive, but I see nothing wrong in letting someone else know what we like. To refuse to open a door for a woman who appreciates it might be stubbornly making some point that they ought not expect too much from you, and you will do it if and only if you feel like it, but such selfishness usually leads to marital disharmony.

Similarly I appreciate it when my wife loves me in the way I wish to be loved, which may not be the same way she wishes to be loved. It would be selfish of me to expect too much, but it would be selfish of her to insist on giving entirely on her own grounds.

Hope that makes sense.

[Wisteria]

Very nicely put, Vorpal.

[Marduk]

Vorpal, this is one of those rare moments where we are on the same page. I say nuts to social and societal norms. If my girlfriend/wife/date feels awkward to wait for me to get around to her side of the car door to open it, or if I'm always walking closer to the road, or walking her to the door, or helping her into her seat before I sit down, then why would I do it? The only person who I care about pleasing in that moment is her. If, on the other hand, she looks forward to these things and appreciates when I do them, then I will do my darndest to always remember to do them.

In short, I think we often get caught up in what we're "supposed" to do, and forget why we're doing them. In any relationship (or potential relationship) we should focus on how to make the other person happy.

[FauxRaiden]

I think you and I can agree on this one Marduk. It's not that the act is terribly inconvenient to do, and I'm sure it is the nice thing to a lot of people. However, I just hate that it's somehow turned into an expectation that men should do this. It seems to me that when it's expected, it cheapens the thought and turns it into a chore rather than a loving act. In any case, there seems to be a double standard when it comes to equality these days. Not to offend anyone by the way.

[Dragon Lady]

In any case, there seems to be a double standard when it comes to equality these days. Not to offend anyone by the way.

Was it better back in the day when guys were expected to stand when a woman entered a room, never swear in front of a lady, and always help them in and out of the carriage? I'm curious of your use of "these days".

[FauxRaiden]

In any case, there seems to be a double standard when it comes to equality these days. Not to offend anyone by the way.

Was it better back in the day when guys were expected to stand when a woman entered a room, never swear in front of a lady, and always help them in and out of the carriage? I'm curious of your use of "these days".

That was also a time when women didn't have the right to vote or have a voice in the world. Back then women were respected, but not heard.

When I say "these days" I mean there's a double standard when it comes to chivalry and the like. Women will preach absolute equality in every other facet of life, but when it comes to the relationships it's "You better open the door for me", "I can't believe you even suggested that I pay!" etc. My point is that chivalry can and should be a two way street.

I'd be happy to open your door for you if you offered to pay the check every once in a while. Being a gentlemen, I would refuse. But the offer would be nice. When I speak of the double standard, it just seems women often want to have their cake and eat it too. (Gross generalization I know)