Romantic chivalry

What do you think about the latest hot topic from the 100 Hour Board? Speak your piece here!

Moderator: Marduk

User avatar
Dragon Lady
Posts: 2332
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:07 pm
Location: Riverton, UT

Re: Romantic chivalry

Post by Dragon Lady »

Wait, you're saying that my right to vote is a trade off for guys opening my doors? What do the two have anything to do with each other? When did my activity in politics have an impact on how I am treated on a date? I agree that chivalry should be a two-way street, but my ability to vote has nothing to do with how I treat men. But if a guy opens my car door, I will more than happily reach across and unlock his door for him. I will treat men with the respect they deserve, but in different ways. I would hope, in dating situations, that a guy will pay*, open doors, and treat the lady with respect in word and deed. In exchange the woman should show appreciation for everything the guy does and not just take it for granted, take an active interest in the date and not just assume that she's being catered to, be on the lookout for things she can do in return, etc.

Honestly? I think it'd be easier to be a guy. At least your "expectations" are clearly outlined. A girl has to be much more creative in ways to show her appreciation and respect. It's like buying gifts. Girls (in general) are easy to buy for. You can always default to flowers, chocolates, stuffed animals, lotions, candles, etc. Guys, however, are much harder to buy for. What am I supposed to get him? A hammer? What is a stereotypical guy gift? Oh, a tie.

Yes, I will preach absolute equality in every facet of life. Including relationships. But I do not believe that equality means that we do the exact same things. The Proclamation to the Family states, "In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners." Hear that? Equal partners. The husband and the wife are equal. But that doesn't mean they are exactly the same. Just the line before outlines some of the differences. 100 pounds of feathers and 100 pounds of lead are equal in weight, but very different in make up. Relationships are not a tradeoff, "I'll open your door if you pay the check." If you get into that game, your marriage is gonna be tough indeed. In a healthy marriage there are no points to tally to measure up to see who is doing more in the relationship. Rather you each do your best to fulfill the needs and wants of the other person. Period. And if you both do it with the right intent, you're not going to care if the other person has been doing the exact same amount in return for you.
FauxRaiden wrote:That was also a time when women didn't have the right to vote or have a voice in the world. Back then women were respected, but not heard.
So wait, you're saying that now women are heard, but not respected? Is that our choice? We can only have one or the other? How come men get to be respected and heard all the time? Why do women have to choose when men don't?

Was that the political discussion? "Ok, ok girls, we'll give you the right to vote. But in exchange, we're going to stop opening your doors for you. You've just lost our respect because you want to care about our country, too."

I'm not saying that some feminists don't take it too far. They want everything and aren't willing to give anything back. They want everything a man gets AND everything entitled to just women as well. I disagree with this. I think it's foolish that some extremist feminists basically want to become men with the benefits of being women as well. But guess what? Not all women are like that. In fact, I'd wager that most aren't. Yes, I'm grateful I get to wear jeans and also have maternity leave from work and have a guy open my door at times, but I'm also willing to make dinner every night and nurture my children and do the laundry. Most women still want to be women. Maybe not the stereotypically in every way, but I think most women are willing to give and take some. Give them some rights and freedoms that have been denied them for centuries (but not forever) and still treat them as ladies and perhaps you'll unleash the respect and devotion that women used to give men.

*I'm not saying a girl should never pay for a date. If a girl asks the guy out, she'd better be planning on paying for it. Whoever plans the date should pay for it.
FauxRaiden
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:23 pm

Re: Romantic chivalry

Post by FauxRaiden »

Dragon Lady wrote: I'm not saying that some feminists don't take it too far. They want everything and aren't willing to give anything back. They want everything a man gets AND everything entitled to just women as well. I disagree with this. I think it's foolish that some extremist feminists basically want to become men with the benefits of being women as well. But guess what? Not all women are like that. In fact, I'd wager that most aren't. Yes, I'm grateful I get to wear jeans and also have maternity leave from work and have a guy open my door at times, but I'm also willing to make dinner every night and nurture my children and do the laundry. Most women still want to be women. Maybe not the stereotypically in every way, but I think most women are willing to give and take some. Give them some rights and freedoms that have been denied them for centuries (but not forever) and still treat them as ladies and perhaps you'll unleash the respect and devotion that women used to give men.

*I'm not saying a girl should never pay for a date. If a girl asks the guy out, she'd better be planning on paying for it. Whoever plans the date should pay for it.
You'll have to forget what I said about the respected and not heard thing. It wasn't meant to bear any impact on the argument, frankly I'm not sure why I mentioned it.

As per your argument, the portion I've quoted is exactly the problem I have. I hate that women expect to be treated as God's gift to men when they're no better then men are. Call it chauvinistic if you like, but women are no more special to me than men are. People often wonder why I speak 'harshly' to women just as I do guys. I've got news for those people, we aren't any different except for some simple physiological differences. A woman should not expect me to treat her any different than a man. The only time I treat a woman differently is if she's my mate, in any other circumstance she may as well be a man for all the difference it would make.

You're absolutely right though, not all women are like those that you mentioned. My intent is not to degrade all women as being guilty of this nature. My beef is, with the women on either side of the fence that are militant about the way they feel and try to punish men that don't conform to it.
User avatar
vorpal blade
Posts: 1750
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:08 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Romantic chivalry

Post by vorpal blade »

Generally speaking men are taller, heavier, and have bigger muscles than women. For some men this is an excuse to bully women. I find that these little social customs showing consideration and protectiveness of women are helpful in maintaining that sense of respect and deference for women. I know some women hate that kind of talk because they want to be treated as just as strong and capable as men. And frankly some women scare me and could offer me more protection than I could offer them. But romantic chivalry helps keep me civilized and not rely on brute force to get my way. Really, it's a good thing to be polite, respectful, stand up when women enter the room, offer my seat to a woman, be protective and caring. It is part of the role of men in the world. Even if some women would take advantage of our courtesy. It doesn't hurt to be kind and think of others ahead of ourselves.
krebscout
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:17 pm
Contact:

Re: Romantic chivalry

Post by krebscout »

Just out of curiosity, how do we feel about pregnant ladies, FauxRaiden? Are we okay with giving them special treatment (I'm mostly thinking the offering of seats here)?

I do happen to be pregnant, but I'm not offended if someone doesn't offer me a seat, by the way.
FauxRaiden
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:23 pm

Re: Romantic chivalry

Post by FauxRaiden »

krebscout wrote:Just out of curiosity, how do we feel about pregnant ladies, FauxRaiden? Are we okay with giving them special treatment (I'm mostly thinking the offering of seats here)?

I do happen to be pregnant, but I'm not offended if someone doesn't offer me a seat, by the way.
Well in the case of pregnancy I find it perfectly acceptable to give them special consideration. I don't want to say that the pregnancy is like an illness, but if I see someone that is in less...healthy than I am than of course I should offer my seat to them. I'm not heartless, and I often do the very things I'm railing against. I can't help but play devil's advocate though.
Post Reply