Liberalism vs. Conservatism

[vorpal blade]

Teachers in high school and elementary schools are not generally extremely knowledgeable about history. They repeat what they learned in college. History departments in universities are usually extremely left-leaning, and department heads work hard to keep it so. Even if the students are exposed to alternate points of view, it is usually through the lens of a liberal, who frequently wants very much for his or her students to have the same point of view.

I understand the need for simplicity, but frequently the teacher is not motivated by a desire to make the subject simple, but that his or her students will share the beliefs of the teacher. Independent thought is given lip-service, but doctrinal conformance to political correctness is usually the underlying goal. Even if the teacher is trying to be objective and fair, he or she is probably ignorant of what others really think, having only been innoculated with some water-downed weak or false arguments of the opposition.

The teaching that "slavery is bad" could come from a conservative or a liberal. The idea that "southerners actually wanted/needed slaves for their economic well-being" sounds like a idea from someone on the left.

[Marduk]

If you mean that your history teachers have always given you a more conservative view of history than, say, Karl Marx, then you probably haven't been exposed to professors in the big liberal arts colleges. If your teachers were slightly more conservative than you it doesn't surprise me. Would you say that your teachers/professors than always been more conservative than me?

Vorpal, I don't know if you realize this, but you are more conservative than just about everyone on this planet. You are more conservative than 99% of the U.S. populace, and 99.9% of the world populace. Ok, I'm exaggerating a bit, but really, not much. The reason you find your voice often unrepresented is that it is in all reality the opinion of an extreme minority.

[vorpal blade]

And yet, strangely, I am not the most conservative person I know. Most of the people I know are just as conservative as I am. According to the political compass survey I'm pretty much in the middle of the spectrum.

How does that saying go, "What we see depends on where we stand?"

[Marduk]

And yet, strangely, I am not the most conservative person I know. Most of the people I know are just as conservative as I am. According to the political compass survey I'm pretty much in the middle of the spectrum.

How does that saying go, "What we see depends on where we stand?"

What political survey is this? Or have you just been misrepresenting yourself on this forum? The United States is one of the more conservative of the developed countries, and you are to the right of most people here. I'm actually curious what these people who are supposedly more conservative than you think. What are they more conservative than you on?

[Tao]

How does that saying go, "What we see depends on where we stand?"

... you are to the right of most people here.

A sexagenarian being more conservative than a forum consisting largely of college students is surprising how?

One of the nice things about having vorpal around is that he's at least willing to listen to positions that are based off of lives that may have very little in common with his own. I'd say that puts him miles more moderate than those unwilling to look across the line.

[vorpal blade]

Why thank you Tao. Nice of you to stick up for me.

[Marduk]

By the way, "right of most people here" was referring to the United States at large, not necessarily this board. Sorry for being unclear.

[Unit of Energy]

I don't know that that is a fair assumption. Vorpal is right of the vocal part of the country, but I'm not sure about the rest of the country.

[bismark]

I don't know that that is a fair assumption. Vorpal is right of the vocal part of the country, but I'm not sure about the rest of the country.

If the Tea Party's hooting and hollering isn't vocal, then I don't know what is. I would consider them pretty far out in "right" field...

[Tao]

Except for the number of people who consider the Tea party movement to be leftist....

Really, as I understood it it was a fairly good mix of both inclinations.

Where you really see extreme right would be in individuals who are live w/o social security numbers and dodge paying taxes due to their denial of any right of the National government to govern them. I would consider them as extreme as those who feel that government controls on every aspect of life would somehow ensure equality.

[bismark]

Except for the number of people who consider the Tea party movement to be leftist....

Really, as I understood it it was a fairly good mix of both inclinations.

Well that really comes down to the debate about what "right" and "left" actually mean. Neocon? Classical liberal? Vorp's own personal brand of religious "conservatism"? Where does it all fall?

Not worth debating really.

[Tao]

Except for the number of people who consider the Tea party movement to be leftist....

Really, as I understood it it was a fairly good mix of both inclinations.

Well that really comes down to the debate about what "right" and "left" actually mean. Neocon? Classical liberal? Vorp's own personal brand of religious "conservatism"? Where does it all fall?

Not worth debating really.

Eh, I'm afraid in my case it's even smaller than that. The most I heard about the Tea Parties was from a few individuals who associate themselves as diehard leftists or extreme right. (And my Ju-Jitsu instructor, who's political endorsement seems to be with Ron Paul, so I would put that down as right and perhaps rotated onto the complex plane)

Really, the only reason the events even stuck in my mind was the shock that came at the realization that both parties were talking about the same rally.

[Laser Jock]

(And my Ju-Jitsu instructor, who's political endorsement seems to be with Ron Paul, so I would put that down as right and perhaps rotated onto the complex plane)

The idea of someone's politics being on the complex plane made me laugh out loud.

[Marduk]

Especially Ron Paul. That dude's ideas are more simplistic, if anything.

[FauxRaiden]

Che Guevara

Really? The others, I grant you, seem to always play the villain. But Che in particular seems to have quite a bit of sympathy in America these days. At least from the people I am exposed to. Maybe it's just that I hang around too many RMs who served in Latin America (...except I don't think I do).

Maybe I just watch Evita too much, and find Antonio Banderas quite dashing.

I haven't read through the rest of the replies, so I may be ignorant of an answer for this. In my experience, most of the people the laud Che here in the U.S. don't really know anything about him. If I ask someone wearing a Che shirt if they knew who he was or what he did they often give me as vague an answer as possible "Che? Yeah he's that cool revolutionary guy in Mexico or something." Beyond that, they view him as something of a counter-culture go against authority kinda guy. He's the "cool" thing right now.

Those that are aware of what went down with Che may think of him differently. My grandfather was in the CIA at the time and was very involved with Che's revolution. I don't think I'm legally allowed to say what exactly went down, but Che wasn't exactly peaches.