Serving Alcohol While a BYU Student

[NerdGirl]

So, on a slight tangent, would you guys feel it was ok to work as a bartender while not attending BYU?

I don't think I would feel okay about doing it just because there's been a lot of alcoholism in my extended family, and several of my relatives have died of things related to alcohol abuse. So I would not feel right about making a living selling people something that has destroyed the lives of people close to me. But if I heard about a Mormon bartender, I don't think I would feel like they were breaking the word of wisdom or anything.

[FauxRaiden]

I don't think any good standing LDS members should be a bartender by virtue of the fact (if I recall correctly) the person has to know what it tastes like in order to serve it. You can't be a chef without tasting your food, a tone deaf musician, and likewise cannot be a bartender without knowing what you're making.

[Marduk]

That might be true in higher class establishments, but even places like Chili's have bartenders. In a chain like that, it is simply a matter of following prescribed mixing amounts and specific recipes. There really isn't call for individual talent in a Chili's kitchen; I imagine the bar would be much the same.

[FauxRaiden]

Maybe so, I really can't speak to the requirements that are involved with something like a Chili's bartender, but don't those people also have to have a bartender's license? Maybe I oughta look this stuff up.

[thebigcheese]

Spencer W. Kimball:
“Clean money is that [pay] received for a full day’s honest work. It is that reasonable pay for faithful service. It is that fair profit from the sale of goods, commodities, or service. It is that income received from transactions where all parties profit. Filthy lucre is … money … obtained through theft and robbery, … gambling, … sinful operations, … bribery, and from exploitation” (Source: Conference Report, Oct. 1953, p. 52)

The part about "sinful operations" is what deters me. Similarly, I would not feel comfortable working at a casino or strip club.

[Dragon Lady]

I don't think any good standing LDS members should be a bartender by virtue of the fact (if I recall correctly) the person has to know what it tastes like in order to serve it. You can't be a chef without tasting your food, a tone deaf musician, and likewise cannot be a bartender without knowing what you're making.

My brother is color blind and legal blind in one eye. And is a photographer by profession. Just sayin'

My personal opinion is that an LDS member should not be a bartender. Avoiding appearance of evil and all that jazz. But if I met someone who was, [shrug] it's their choice. And I'm not their judge in Israel.

[FauxRaiden]

I don't think any good standing LDS members should be a bartender by virtue of the fact (if I recall correctly) the person has to know what it tastes like in order to serve it. You can't be a chef without tasting your food, a tone deaf musician, and likewise cannot be a bartender without knowing what you're making.

My brother is color blind and legal blind in one eye. And is a photographer by profession. Just sayin'

My personal opinion is that an LDS member should not be a bartender. Avoiding appearance of evil and all that jazz. But if I met someone who was, [shrug] it's their choice. And I'm not their judge in Israel.

Touché madam. Maybe that could be some kind of benefit to your brother though? Make him more of an art commodity. Beethoven was deaf later in life after all.

I honestly couldn't care less whether a person of LDS standing is a bartender or not. But I know I often feel differently than the social normative when it comes to LDS standards. For instance, some feel rated R movies are an abomination. I for one, feel that they're perfectly fine as long as you're in control of yourself. But to each his own. I was just under the impression that you had to taste the drinks in order to be a bartender, I guess I'll look that up on my lunch break.

[thebigcheese]

I once knew an LDS girl who worked in the cafe of Barnes & Noble, and people would always tell her that she made the best coffee they'd ever tasted. She had no idea what it tasted like, she just followed the recipe.

[bismark]

Interesting. The HC line does say "Furthermore, all students are required to abstain from possessing, serving, or consuming alcoholic beverages, tobacco, tea, coffee, or harmful drugs." I suppose that puts working at a cafe in the same category as working at a bar...

[Laser Jock]

So, on a slight tangent, would you guys feel it was ok to work as a bartender while not attending BYU?

I personally would never feel comfortable doing so, but I'd try not to judge other members who chose to be bartenders. I'll admit that I'm not sure I'd succeed, though.

[ahem.]

I suppose that puts working at a cafe in the same category as working at a bar...

Yes, I was just thinking about this. Do the opinions change if we make the question "would you guys feel it was ok to work as a barista while not attending BYU?

[Carrapicho]

This whole topic kinda reminds me of the outcry that came when Kirby Heyborne appeared in that beer commercial. Wiki says that he had a show at BYU that got canceled because of it. What do you think? Is there a difference?

I think it's a completely gray area. I mean, I've known perfectly active LDS Starbucks employees, so if we're saying that a café and a bar are similar in that they both mainly sell things that are against the Honor Code...well, I dunno. I think it's best left up to the individual.

[FauxRaiden]

Yeah this topic is familiar of the Kirby thing too. I think the people getting upset at Kirby, frankly, are just being prudes.

I honestly don't think it's an issue, and I have a huge problem with a lot of BYU's rules but that's another story. I think the person should be allowed to do whatever they want, so long as they don't partake. If I can be a barista or bartender without having to drink either, what's the problem? I don't think I'm actively condoning anything, I'm just making a sale. Am I supposed to quit working at movie theaters that show rated R movies, stores that sell wine, or companies that work on sunday (even if I don't)?

[Carrapicho]

Am I supposed to quit working at movie theaters that show rated R movies, stores that sell wine, or companies that work on sunday (even if I don't)?

Shoot, I'm screwed. I used to work custodial at BYU, and my shift was 10:30pm-2am Sunday through Thursday nights. BYU made me break a commandment! But hey, it wasn't against the Honor Code, so there

(Sorry about the threadjack)

[NerdGirl]

Am I supposed to quit working at movie theaters that show rated R movies, stores that sell wine, or companies that work on sunday (even if I don't)?

Shoot, I'm screwed. I used to work custodial at BYU, and my shift was 10:30pm-2am Sunday through Thursday nights. BYU made me break a commandment! But hey, it wasn't against the Honor Code, so there

(Sorry about the threadjack)

I used to be one of those art models who wore bikinis, so BYU made me break the Honor Code! Scandal!!

[ahem.]

They didn't make you do it. They just paid you for it.

[FauxRaiden]

Am I supposed to quit working at movie theaters that show rated R movies, stores that sell wine, or companies that work on sunday (even if I don't)?

Shoot, I'm screwed. I used to work custodial at BYU, and my shift was 10:30pm-2am Sunday through Thursday nights. BYU made me break a commandment! But hey, it wasn't against the Honor Code, so there

(Sorry about the threadjack)

I used to be one of those art models who wore bikinis, so BYU made me break the Honor Code! Scandal!!

You know what they say, pics it or didn't happen.

[NerdGirl]

I actually do have pics, but this was in the days before everyone had a digital camera, so they're buried somewhere in my parents' basement until I finally become a real person with a house that I can have all of my stuff in.

[FauxRaiden]

On a related note, I always wondered how the church feels about nude modeling or nude artistry. It's not as though these people that are doing the art or modeling are doing it for sexual purposes, it would seem to be okay, no?

[thebigcheese]

On a related note, I always wondered how the church feels about nude modeling or nude artistry. It's not as though these people that are doing the art or modeling are doing it for sexual purposes, it would seem to be okay, no?

One of my professors (Brent Strong) discussed this issue in the History of Creativity class. Apparently, some students were complaining about him showing the David statue (http://www.fmboschetto.it/religione/lib ... angelo.jpg) in class because it made them feel uncomfortable. So he discussed the matter with some other professors, and many of them were of the opinion that you really can't properly teach about the art of that time period without including the David. So he decided to show it in class and just told students to close their eyes if it made them uncomfortable.

I've also heard that the Museum of Art at BYU has asked traveling exhibits to remove their nude artwork, and art majors are not allowed to display nudity in their exhibits or portfolios (http://universe.byu.edu/node/6994).

But that's just BYU. I don't know about the church in general.