Cooking with wine

[Dragon Lady]

mmmmmm some tea would be nice right about now....

Hah! You crack me up. Sometimes I'm glad we have a non-Mormon on here. Just to make sure we don't get too deep in our Mormon ruts.

[Imogen]

thanks, dragon lady! i feel appreciated.

[Marduk]

I obviously support the idea of personal interpretation. If something is not specifically prohibited, then people should make their own decisions on the topic. I just think it's sketchy territory to allow the actions/opinions of a single bishop to define what is or is not prohibited.

I find your point to be insignificant because it would not change my stance one bit whether your bishop did or did not share your opinion about wine in cooking.

Does that make sense?

Yes, it does, but your stance is based already on the fact that it is up to personal interpretation. Not everyone is saying that, hence the anecdote. But you're right, it is one piece of anecdotal evidence that doesn't necessarily correlate with a majority opinion.

[ahem.]

I see your point. You're saying that if this were something I were dead set against, an example of a bishop accepting it might sway my hard line "X-activity is a sin" attitude. Yes?

Hmm... well. I had a roommate who used to order a drink she called Christmas-in-a-cup at Starbucks all the time. Turns out it had a base of chai-tea, something that I absolutely think is against the WoW. Not just for me personally, but for everyone. Now if she had told me her old bishop didn't see a problem with it, I don't think it would have changed my opinion on the subject. I still think no member of the LDS faith should drink chai tea.

I think we all need to try harder to live our lives for ourselves and refrain from judging people based on our own opinions and experiences. The Spirit will help us to know when we need to correct our behavior, and I think that is the best standard for which to measure our actions.

[Gimgimno]

While we're inciting controversy around here, did you all know that there is no official stance on green tea in the Church? There are plenty of guidelines for tea that are passed around, especially in Asia, but I was told by my mission president that I was out of line and overstepping my authority by specifically forbidding people I taught from drinking green tea because there has never been an explicit statement from the Brethren about it.

I thought it was clear because most Japanese don't drink it and opt for mugicha instead (which is, in my opinion, far from delicious), but my mission president served his mission in Japan--plus he's my mission president--so I wasn't about to argue.

[NerdGirl]

While we're inciting controversy around here, did you all know that there is no official stance on green tea in the Church? There are plenty of guidelines for tea that are passed around, especially in Asia, but I was told by my mission president that I was out of line and overstepping my authority by specifically forbidding people I taught from drinking green tea because there has never been an explicit statement from the Brethren about it.

I thought it was clear because most Japanese don't drink it and opt for mugicha instead (which is, in my opinion, far from delicious), but my mission president served his mission in Japan--plus he's my mission president--so I wasn't about to argue.

I used to drink green tea on occasion, but I'm off caffeine now because it interacts with a drug I'm on.

[bismark]

We were given a little "tea" cheat sheet to carry around with us. I wish I still had it... Anyway, "ryokucha", aka green tea, was on the "not allowed" list. Dunno what the source of this cheat sheet was however.

And come on, there is nothing like a cold cup of mugicha on a hot, muggy Tokyo day..

[ahem.]

Shoot. I was really hoping that wasn't going to start a debate on tea.

*waves hand* *ctrl+z*

[Gimgimno]

I was really hoping to start a tea debate!

[Dragon Lady]

*waves hand* *ctrl+z*

[snort]

But FYI, that doesn't work for me. I'm on a Mac.

[NerdGirl]

Command+z!

[Dragon Lady]

Command+z!

Much better.

[Imogen]

ok y'all, now i seriously want some tea, especially because hurricane alex is making it rain in my city and my throat hurts. can we please stop talking about tea? it's too late for me to make any (it's after midnight). man, i am thirsty.

[FauxRaiden]

This whole time I saw people writing WoW I was wondering what World of Warcraft had to do with any of this.

*facepalm

[vorpal blade]

83 or 86, I think. It's from Arrington's memoir. I agree with your point that Pres. McKay's opinion isn't any more special than any other apostle or prophet, and that's the point I'm trying to make: even as high as the general, prophetic leadership of the Church there are disagreements and it's okay to interperet the Word of Wisdom different than the Joneses as long as the big ones are kept, namely avoiding coffee, tea, illegal drugs, and all the rest.

The problem I have with the book David O. McKay, and the rise of Modern Mormonism is that it is filled with things that cast doubt on the Church leadership, especially when the leadership has been conservative. It presents Ezra Taft Benson as a scheming conservative opposed by other members of the Church leadership. It presents the question of priesthood for blacks as an inherited racism that David O. McKay was fighting against. And now this story of President McKay being okay with food heavy in alcohol. Whenever I've looked into the sources quoted in the book I come up against references not available to the public. Private papers and memoirs which I don't have access to. It all fits so neatly into the personal and political ambitions of the authors.

[vorpal blade]

I think what Marduk meant was that 5-75% of the original alcohol content remains, not that the food is necessarily 5-75% alcohol. If I make a huge pan of roasted vegetables with 3 tablespoons of white wine in the sauce, there's maybe 1% alcohol content in the entire dish before I put it in the oven. When it comes out two or three hours later, if there's 5% of that 1% left, that makes 0.05% in my veggies. That's not very much. There's probably that much alcohol in juice that's gotten a bit old.

Well, that does make a difference. I suppose I should have understood Marduk differently, but I didn't.

[Craig Jessop]

Well considering that almost all of LDS scholarship today raved about the book, its openess and honesty, and that it in no way tries to shake the readers testimony, and tha 95 percent of the controversial material is backed by a primary, quoted source, I'd say that the charge that a former mission president and the head of the most respected LDS scholarly journal have some sort of ulterior motive to make up sources is somewhat dubious. Have you even read the book? Or are you just quoting some conservative member of the bloggernacle or high priests' group?

Let's get even more controversial, shall we? The Steed family doesn't exist, and the Brethren don't always get along or see eye to eye and, yes, disagree very strongly sometimes.

[Dragon Lady]

Let's get even more controversial, shall we? The Steed family doesn't exist.

WHAT?!? But… but… people have talked about them over the pulpit in Sacrament meeting! I don't believe you. I think you're just quoting hearsay. [sniff]

[vorpal blade]

Well considering that almost all of LDS scholarship today raved about the book, its openess and honesty, and that it in no way tries to shake the readers testimony, and tha 95 percent of the controversial material is backed by a primary, quoted source, I'd say that the charge that a former mission president and the head of the most respected LDS scholarly journal have some sort of ulterior motive to make up sources is somewhat dubious. Have you even read the book? Or are you just quoting some conservative member of the bloggernacle or high priests' group?

Let's get even more controversial, shall we? The Steed family doesn't exist, and the Brethren don't always get along or see eye to eye and, yes, disagree very strongly sometimes.

Of course people who want to believe that there is dissension among the general authorities, and that the Church leadership is after all is just a group of mostly uninspired old men, are going to rave about it. I read a few chapters in it. I found it a very dishonest book. Sure, there are a few moments when a select few Church leaders appear to have an inspired moment now and then. The controversial parts have references that you can't look up. At least one of the authors is a political hack. I trust nothing in the book. By the way I don't say they made up the sources, I say they interpret what the sources say, and you have no means to verify it. They use unofficial, dubious hearsay kinds of references. What one of the authors remembered his aunt having said she heard President McKay say when she was his secretary, is not a primary source in my book. And I think she would be horrified to see how her nephew distorted the story. There is a good reason the Church does not approve of this kind of "scholarship" using unofficial notes and items taken home without permission, and interpreted to fit the agenda of some author. And that agenda is that the Church is primarily a human institution, mingled with scattered inspiration.

[Marduk]

Of course people who want to believe that there is dissension among the general authorities, and that the Church leadership is after all is just a group of mostly uninspired old men....

I just want to point out that these two statements are not corollary. It is possible for two general authorities to disagree on something and still both be inspired and bear their priesthood mantles.