Congrats to LJ and Eirene!

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Eirene
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Re: Congrats to LJ and Eirene!

Post by Eirene »

I know LJ wasn't that big of a meat eater even before we met, which made things a lot easier when we started cooking dinner together and everything. But no, I would never force him not to eat something or intentionally pressure him to avoid something. He's a grown man and I respect his decisions even when they're not the same as mine. I believe his major reasons for eating vegetarian around me are that it makes cooking together much, much easier, and also that factory-farmed meat both grosses me out and depresses me, and he doesn't want me to feel either of those things on his account. He's just a wonderful and considerate guy. (can it in advance, Gimgimno, I'm engaged and I'm allowed to be mushy :D) But I know he sometimes eats meat when I'm not around (which I'm ok with), and he often orders seafood at restaurants, which also doesn't bother me (although I personally don't care for seafood, I still have a hard time accepting that a scallop has the same potential for feeling pain and emotional suffering as, say, a pig).

As far as kids go, we have talked about it, but I won't bore you with our discussions too much. Briefly, though, my side of things is that young children need help in making moral decisions. A four-year-old doesn't get to decide for themselves whether they want to go to church; at least until a certain age, it's the parents' responsibility to teach them and make it easy for them to do the right thing, not to give them all the same options as an adult. I'm planning on making it easy for my children (while they're young) to do the right thing by not feeding them meat when I can control it, and also by educating them regarding things like the fact that hamburgers are made of dead cows and chicken nuggets are made of dead chickens (which is something that kids don't always actually figure out until they're much older than I think they should be). Will that be enough to make them lifelong vegetarians? I sure hope so! I think the world would be a better place if everyone (in developed countries, at least) gave up meat, so of course I want to raise my children in a way that I think is moral and makes the world better.

So, wired, I don't know that I'd call your sister insane. Food isn't a moral issue to everyone, but it certainly is to some people. And when something (eating meat, drinking, gambling, premarital sex, whatever) is really and truly a moral issue to you, it's hard to watch the people you love doing the thing you feel strongly is wrong. With most moral issues, I'm usually happy to discuss them, although I generally try not to be the first to bring up the discussion with someone. I'll be honest, though that's as much because I want to make others comfortable as it is because I'm just a chicken about getting into heated discussions. It sounds like your sister is braver about defending her moral stances than I am, which is enviable and admirable in some ways.
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Laser Jock
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Re: Congrats to LJ and Eirene!

Post by Laser Jock »

What Eirene said. :) Also, she has two reasons for not eating meat: the first is the moral issue of how the animals are treated while being raised and slaughtered, and the second is simply that the idea of eating meat grosses her out. From what she's said, she doesn't really have a problem with people eating meat if the animal was raised and slaughtered humanely, though she personally still wouldn't choose to eat that meat (though I've gotten the impression that it's more like why she doesn't eat, say, mushrooms). So that's an option for me, still, and one that I will probably look into further.
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Re: Congrats to LJ and Eirene!

Post by Dragon Lady »

Oh good. Eirene, please know that all (well, 99%) of my beef that I cook was humanely raised and slaughtered. Heck, I remember bringing baby calves inside our house when it was freezing outside and they were brand new and wet and would have died had they stayed outside. And then we wrapped them in our blankets (old ones), dried them with a hair dryer, sometimes even gave them a bath in our bathtub. Anything we had to to keep them warm.

Then their whole lives they get pasture-fed (except winter when there is no pasture, then they get home-grown hay, supplemented with grain if needed, but even then they get to wander around in a pasture to eat it so they're not crammed up in tiny spaces.) and then our simple hometown butcher comes out to our farm to slaughter one whenever we need more meat.

So as per your first reason, you don't have to snub your nose at me! (Except for when I eat chicken. Then you can. But I hope someday to rectify that!) As per your second reason… well, I think you're crazy for not liking mushrooms either. :D
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Re: Congrats to LJ and Eirene!

Post by Emiliana »

I'm mostly pescatarian. My original reasons had to do with economics: It's much less economically and environmentally efficient to produce meat and other animal products than plant-based products. I strongly believe that if people in industrialized countries, and the upper and middle classes in other countries, cut back on their meat consumption then the whole world's food supply would be benefited. I will explain that to anyone who's willing to listen, but I try not to push it on people.

I've only dated one person since I quit eating meat, and he was definitely a meat-eater. I didn't mind if he ordered meat when we went out, but if we were eating in, it was pretty much always vegetarian.

It's actually not that hard to find meals that can be adapted to a veggie or non-veggie diet, though. Pizza, lasagne, quiche, soup, various types of pasta -- all pretty adaptable. I'd often tell my last set of roommates that if they wanted to add some meat to something I was making, that was fine. But they needed to cook it themselves -- mostly because the smell of bacon frying or ground beef browning kind of turns my stomach. I know that's different from dating or marriage, but it worked out pretty well for us.
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Re: Congrats to LJ and Eirene!

Post by Whistler »

Related anecdote: I have a cousin-in-law who was raised vegetarian and never developed a taste for meat. It just tastes gross to him.
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Re: Congrats to LJ and Eirene!

Post by Eirene »

Oh, DL, that is EXACTLY how animals should be raised! I think I might always be kind of squicked out about the idea of eating an animal, but I have absolutely no moral objections to giving livestock healthy, happy lives and when their time is over, quick, humane deaths. If all the meat in the world was raised the way your family's is, I'd have no moral objections. I guess it's still not a great idea to rely too heavily on meat, nutritionally or ecologically, but I don't believe that eating meat has to be inherently, automatically wrong. It's when it comes to the over-industrialized meat operations (where, from my experiences visiting farms and "processing plants," people aren't treated like human beings and animals aren't treated like living creatures) that I have a hard time believing God is ok with that kind of treatment.

But anyway, I hope explaining what I think is right isn't feeling too much like I'm being judgey or whatever. I accept that not everyone thinks food is a moral issue (not that I'm saying you don't, DL, this part is just kind of a broad thing to anyone), and I always hope that other people can accept (with minimal eye-rolling, preferably) that I very much think it is.
Eirene
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Re: Congrats to LJ and Eirene!

Post by Eirene »

Whistler wrote:Related anecdote: I have a cousin-in-law who was raised vegetarian and never developed a taste for meat. It just tastes gross to him.
Heh. This is totally my child-rearing goal.
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Sky Bones
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Re: Congrats to LJ and Eirene!

Post by Sky Bones »

I hope to be a vegetarian again some day. I was going strong for ten years and then I got knocked up and literally couldn't stop throwing up everything until I ate some meat. The same thing happened with my mom when she was pregnant with me. I often wonder if I had been raised vegetarian if I wouldn't have had this problem, that my body wouldn't have craved meat, you know? I figure there's not much of a point of completely going back to vegetarianism though until I'm done having kids. Ironically, Baby Bones threw up any and all meat we offered her up until she was almost 18 months, and even now she tends to avoid it.

So, Eirene, consider yourself forewarned. :P Pregnancy can and might just do some crazy things to you and your eating habits. But at least you'll be able to completely blame LJ, right?
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Portia
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Re: Congrats to LJ and Eirene!

Post by Portia »

I'm pretty sure my children will be chocotarians.
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Re: Congrats to LJ and Eirene!

Post by Imogen »

As I'm a proud Texan, my children will definitely be eating meat, but I am going to strive to cook fresh food and not load them up on crap. Or even give them large portions of meat. I have terrible eating habits, and I don't want to pass those on to my kids. Once they can cook on their own, they can be vegetarian if they want, but I'm not going to cook two dinners!
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Re: Congrats to LJ and Eirene!

Post by Dragon Lady »

Imogen wrote:As I'm a proud Texan, my children will definitely be eating meat,
I grew up on a beef farm. I quite understand.
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Re: Congrats to LJ and Eirene!

Post by Katya »

I wonder if I can get a refund on the "Mystery Meat of the Month" subscription I bought LJ and Eirene as a wedding present . . .
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Re: Congrats to LJ and Eirene!

Post by krebscout »

Katya wrote:I wonder if I can get a refund on the "Mystery Meat of the Month" subscription I bought LJ and Eirene as a wedding present . . .
Sick. This made me snortlaugh.
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Re: Congrats to LJ and Eirene!

Post by Katya »

krebscout wrote:
Katya wrote:I wonder if I can get a refund on the "Mystery Meat of the Month" subscription I bought LJ and Eirene as a wedding present . . .
Sick. This made me snortlaugh.
What's Valentine's Day without haggis? :(
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Re: Congrats to LJ and Eirene!

Post by Dragon Lady »

chillygator wrote:DL: I've had my invitation for WEEKS. They must just love me more than they love you. (o:
Well, they sent me two invitations. So clearly they love me more than they love you. ;)
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Re: Congrats to LJ and Eirene!

Post by NerdGirl »

I like to think of myself as a vegetarian sympathizer. I was a vegetarian for about 6 years, and then I started having issues with recurrent anemia that seems to always come back when I start thinking I'm going to be a vegetarian again. Part of that was my celiac disease, and part of it is that I have really heavy periods (I'm sure you all wanted to know that, but new mission in life is to get people to talk about their bodily functions). Anyway, this past semester I started to majorly cut back on the amount of meat I was eating (while eating a lot of spinach, kale, and quinoa because I'm always thinking about iron), and I was really tired all the time, which I assumed was probably related to my thyroid issues that I've had forever. But then my lab test results came back and my thyroid was fine, but my hemoglobin was low (just barely) and my ferritin was incredibly low. So I think I'm resigning myself to the fact that I lose enough blood on a regular basis that I need to consume red meat. But thankfully there is a meat shop a block away from my house that sells all kinds of free-range and humanely raised stuff, because I really do feel strongly about how we should treat farm animals.
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Re: Congrats to LJ and Eirene!

Post by Wisteria »

Wowsas. I am way out of the loop from being out of the country and spending all of last week on Temple Square, but congrats! I feel like I have a rather interesting perspective here, since I knew LJ was dating someone and leaned about the engagement the day after it happened, but had no idea it was to Eirene! I guess I know your identity, Eirene. Apparently a lot of people on here do, so probably you're fine with that. Also, I was the friend that LJ asked to write up the evo biology answer last January and I didn't realize he had put it on hold for me when he asked me about it three weeks later. Whoops. I'm glad it didn't stand in the way of a budding relationship, at least.
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Re: Congrats to LJ and Eirene!

Post by Katya »

Wisteria wrote:Also, I was the friend that LJ asked to write up the evo biology answer last January and I didn't realize he had put it on hold for me when he asked me about it three weeks later. Whoops. I'm glad it didn't stand in the way of a budding relationship, at least.
No, you've got it backwards. It was because you didn't answer that question that the relationship began to bud. in fact, I think you can pretty much take credit for the whole situation.
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Re: Congrats to LJ and Eirene!

Post by Portia »

My brother has a teacher who said "I'm vegetarian . . . except for bacon."

T-SHIRT PLEASE.
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Re: Congrats to LJ and Eirene!

Post by Wisteria »

Ha! Katya, I love you. I feel so useful right now.
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