I was actually thinking about asking a question very similar to http://theboard.byu.edu/questions/67813/ (that is, asking if any writers had ever lost and regained their testimony). It's something that happened to me--in high school, I had a series of experiences that, like the husband of the person who asked the question, basically forced me to recognize that most or even all of the good feelings that I'd attributed to the Spirit may have been just that, nothing more than good feelings, and that I had no actual foundation for my testimony of the Church. I never doubted God's existence, but I spent more than a year searching for answers before I finally found something I deemed sufficient, if not 100% definitive. A few months later, I had an experience which I don't believe is appropriate to share here, but to sum it up, it proved to me conclusively that God exists, that He has power, that He knows and loves me personally, and that He answers at least some prayers. Since then, I've periodically been forced to reevaluate a lot of my interpretations of promptings, but based off of what I know for certain, and based off of my best interpretation of what I've seen, felt, and learned, I am certain enough that the Church is correct (and even if it isn't, it's more correct than any other) that I'm willing to base my entire life philosophy and all of my decisions off of it. And besides, as the anonymous writer said, I agree with everything the Church teaches me to do. I think that what I have still qualifies as a strong testimony; I'm willing to admit that it certainly doesn't constitute knowledge, though.
Sometimes, I think the only way we can get answers is by persisting. (In retrospect, I also learned a lesson on the importance of trials after reading Mosiah 23:21-24 and 24:13-14. Without one of the hardest trials of my entire life, my testimony would be based purely on belief and hope rather than concrete knowledge, and I don't know if I'd have been able to serve a mission or have stayed active in the long run.) I can understand, though, the frustration of people who do everything their leaders/the missionaries/other people tell them to do and still don't get an answer. I don't think people who have never deeply questioned their testimonies can properly understand it.
Has anyone else had an experience like this? I'd be really interested in hearing about it, and your thoughts on it.
Regained testimonies
Moderator: Marduk
Re: Regained testimonies
I could empathize with both the woman and the man. Clearly, her father was a self-centered jerk, and she suffers from some justifiable abandonment issues. But correlation does not imply causation. I don't think her father walked out of the door because being Mormon just didn't seem too dandy anymore; people who callously walk out on their spouses and children always strike me as sociopaths who care about themselves above all. If I believed in adultery-causation theories, I'd be forced to hightail it as far as possible from a temple wedding because it has had an inverse predictive relationship with cheating & divorce in my family history. Unfortunately, some people are just "morons," to you use my close friend's phrase when I was tearfully admitting some of my concerns. Hopefully it's not genetic because I would be about 75% callous jerk, if so.
Let's assume that the husband is not banging airline stewardesses, is a good father, and still truly loves the wife. I tend to side with "anonymous" more than "Kirke," here. (Though I appreciate Kirke's ever-diligent links, as it has inspired me to read about and think about Elder Maxwell's life. He really was one-of-a-kind.) At no point does it indicate that the husband has any desire to sin. You can dictate behavior, and in a marriage, behavior is so totally on the table, and your husband has to see that. Cheating on you is out, obviously, no matter how many sex partners his heathen friends may have had. I'd say the big three of alcohol, drugs, and cigarettes are obviously out, too: you have kids, he can deal. But you absolutely CAN'T dictate what a grown man believes. Losing that integrity, not being able to say "honey, I really think XYZ is hogwash. In no way does this detract from my eternal ardor for you and our beautiful family, but I just can't wrap my head around this."
There was always something a bit Soviet-esque to me about this idea that if you just think harder, read harder, hope harder, you can brainwash yourself into believing. That's not even what the scriptures say. The famous exhortation actually says "ask if these things are NOT true." There is a world, a very real world, where a decent, smart, (hopefully!) handsome BYU graduate, returned missionary father could get a "no." Not a maybe, or a yes but, but a no. This isn't a sin or a failing on his part. I'm a convinced liberal, but I read me some Niall Ferguson. It's good to challenge your beliefs, even your religious ones. It's this fear of apostasy that leads detractors to (rather petulantly) label believers "sheeple." I don't think that's what the wife is, or Kirke is, or yafullness or myself were or are, but the rhetoric can get overbearing. Never smoke bath salts? Agreed. Never think critically? I object!
If I were him, I think he needs to man up and realize that he has a lot of compromising to do. If it is sinning he's after, take it from me, most of them aren't that exciting. Drinking makes you weepy and send regrettable texts to exes you just shouldn't be texting, being a self-centered ass is its own punishment, and sex, the only really alluring temptation, is readily available from his charming and beautiful wife. (How do I know she fits the description? She reads the Board, of course!) His number one priorities need to be his family, his work, and his own sanity/happiness. Hey, I think that holds for wife, too. So if he needs to say, I don't know, skip Elder's Quorum or have a more activity-oriented rather than scripture oriented-FHE, maybe his wife can suck it up and let him. He does need to be hyper-sensitive to her emotional needs though, considering her dumb father. The same way any man who may want to get involved with me will have to be a superhumanly affectionate father if there is any way in this universe we have a child together.
I don't think reasonable "Post-Mormons," and I know many in real life and otherwise, would advocate putting your crisis of faith above the people you love. I sort of feel like Mormonism and all its attendant trappings chooses you, rather than the other way around, especially for those of us true-blue Cougar types. I am a temple-recommend holder (which always sounds pompous to me, but whatever), and I certainly don't believe in the literal truth of a lot of scripture, or really think of God as a corporeal building, or am going to go on a media pogrom, or enjoy manufactured spiritual feelings like EFY. And I certainly am not saying I will never believe all of those things whole-heartedly. But I don't now. (And I know that this is not a sin or a shortcoming but just the way things are at this moment. If the Church taught me anything, it's to be honest with my fellows.) But I really do strive for "love and harmony." And I think this husband should or he will SO REGRET IT.
Let's assume that the husband is not banging airline stewardesses, is a good father, and still truly loves the wife. I tend to side with "anonymous" more than "Kirke," here. (Though I appreciate Kirke's ever-diligent links, as it has inspired me to read about and think about Elder Maxwell's life. He really was one-of-a-kind.) At no point does it indicate that the husband has any desire to sin. You can dictate behavior, and in a marriage, behavior is so totally on the table, and your husband has to see that. Cheating on you is out, obviously, no matter how many sex partners his heathen friends may have had. I'd say the big three of alcohol, drugs, and cigarettes are obviously out, too: you have kids, he can deal. But you absolutely CAN'T dictate what a grown man believes. Losing that integrity, not being able to say "honey, I really think XYZ is hogwash. In no way does this detract from my eternal ardor for you and our beautiful family, but I just can't wrap my head around this."
There was always something a bit Soviet-esque to me about this idea that if you just think harder, read harder, hope harder, you can brainwash yourself into believing. That's not even what the scriptures say. The famous exhortation actually says "ask if these things are NOT true." There is a world, a very real world, where a decent, smart, (hopefully!) handsome BYU graduate, returned missionary father could get a "no." Not a maybe, or a yes but, but a no. This isn't a sin or a failing on his part. I'm a convinced liberal, but I read me some Niall Ferguson. It's good to challenge your beliefs, even your religious ones. It's this fear of apostasy that leads detractors to (rather petulantly) label believers "sheeple." I don't think that's what the wife is, or Kirke is, or yafullness or myself were or are, but the rhetoric can get overbearing. Never smoke bath salts? Agreed. Never think critically? I object!
If I were him, I think he needs to man up and realize that he has a lot of compromising to do. If it is sinning he's after, take it from me, most of them aren't that exciting. Drinking makes you weepy and send regrettable texts to exes you just shouldn't be texting, being a self-centered ass is its own punishment, and sex, the only really alluring temptation, is readily available from his charming and beautiful wife. (How do I know she fits the description? She reads the Board, of course!) His number one priorities need to be his family, his work, and his own sanity/happiness. Hey, I think that holds for wife, too. So if he needs to say, I don't know, skip Elder's Quorum or have a more activity-oriented rather than scripture oriented-FHE, maybe his wife can suck it up and let him. He does need to be hyper-sensitive to her emotional needs though, considering her dumb father. The same way any man who may want to get involved with me will have to be a superhumanly affectionate father if there is any way in this universe we have a child together.
I don't think reasonable "Post-Mormons," and I know many in real life and otherwise, would advocate putting your crisis of faith above the people you love. I sort of feel like Mormonism and all its attendant trappings chooses you, rather than the other way around, especially for those of us true-blue Cougar types. I am a temple-recommend holder (which always sounds pompous to me, but whatever), and I certainly don't believe in the literal truth of a lot of scripture, or really think of God as a corporeal building, or am going to go on a media pogrom, or enjoy manufactured spiritual feelings like EFY. And I certainly am not saying I will never believe all of those things whole-heartedly. But I don't now. (And I know that this is not a sin or a shortcoming but just the way things are at this moment. If the Church taught me anything, it's to be honest with my fellows.) But I really do strive for "love and harmony." And I think this husband should or he will SO REGRET IT.
Last edited by Portia on Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Regained testimonies
And I certainly am not saying I will never believe all of those things whole-heartedly. But I don't now. And I know that this is not a sin or a shortcoming but just the way things are at this moment. If the Church taught me anything, it's to be honest with my fellows.
Re: Regained testimonies
I think it's pretty common to have a crisis of faith at some point in your life. What's tricky about Mormons demographics is that a young person in their mid-20s who has a crisis of faith may already be married (in the temple) and have a couple of children, which makes the pressure to stay in the faith much stronger and the downsides for leaving much greater. Of course, feeling like you're only staying active because of social pressure can just magnify the feelings of doubt and duplicity.