Gay family members

[Craig Jessop]

ALSO, God doesn't see any one sin as better or worse than another. They are all the same in his eyes.!

Not true in Mormon theology.

[Imogen]

ALSO, God doesn't see any one sin as better or worse than another. They are all the same in his eyes.!

Not true in Mormon theology.

Still not Mormon, though, so it's true for me. I realize that would color their thinking, but my point still stands: are they going to shelter their children from every sin ever? I assume they won't send their kids to public school, then.

[UnluckyStuntman]

Example 1: My sister whose kids are 1, 5, and 7 has told me that she will allow my girlfriend to attend family events at her home, but she will never tell her kids that my girlfriend is my girlfriend, even if they ask. She plans to use the word "friend." I don't think anybody needs to announce to very young kids that Aunt Black Sheep has a GIRLFRIEND and talk about all of those ramifications, but this makes me uneasy.

Example 2: My brother whose kids are 2, 5, 8, and 10 cornered me a few weeks ago while I was in Vegas and had a two-hour chat with me, which was, naturally, completely his doing. He told me that "everyone probably thinks I'm being selfish because this is our eternal family." He also said that his wife and he go back and forth on the issue of whether my girlfriend and I would be allowed to enter their home. "Sometimes," he said, "the answer is, 'No way!' But other times it's like, 'Well, as long as they're not making out on our couch.'" He also outed me to his wife's entire super-churchy family shortly before their family and ours had a combined family gathering, which resulted in them treating me super weird. He also discussed this issue with my stake patriarch grandfather while they were staying in my parent's house which resulted in him not talking to me at all.

I love you, TBS. I also want to slap your family.

[TheBlackSheep]

Okay, I'm back! It's a day someday soon.

Eliot Rosewater, GA, and Maven: Thanks for your responses. I know awkward questions like that one aren't that easy to answer, and I really appreciated all of your thoughts.

TBC: Ditto on the above, and thanks for the compliment! Also thanks for playing devil's advocate in such as respectful way.

If they end up being straight, then it doesn't really matter what you teach them about it. Their own sexual behavior won't involve homosexuality. If they end up being gay, they're going to be gay whether or not you made a point of emphasizing how wrong you believe it is - but won't it be a little easier for them to deal with telling you about their sexuality if you haven't gone out of your way to point out how wrong it is to be gay since they were little kids?

I kind of like this thought. You can't teach kids not to be gay, but you can teach them to respect and love other people and you can send the message that families can transcend this stuff. However, I feel like parents can try to teach kids not to engage in same-sex relationships, and if that's important to their value system, they should communicate that.

So, gay and/or ex-religious readers of this board, is this a generational thing?

No, I don't think it is. I can't speak to the conditions in your family, but if it weren't for my mom (not even my dad, just my mom) I'm not sure how much communicating I would be doing with my family right now. She makes me feel loved and supported even as she doesn't condone my behavior, and I'm sure that she's been doing some behind-the-scenes work to calm down my siblings a little. I was inactive in my family for three years before this, and being in a same-sex relationship is so. much. harder., despite what very well may be everybody's best efforts. Maybe your great-uncle isn't aware of your genuine good feelings toward him, or maybe he was faking his goodwill for years for the benefit of his mother. Heaven knows my mom is the only reason I might make an appearance this holiday season. Maybe nobody meant to be rude to him, but there were just too many little jibes. Maybe he feels excluded because the church is such a main focus during family activities. Who knows. But whatever it is, it isn't generational, except that things were probably much harder for him than they will be for him for much longer due to the time in which he grew up.

Our first and foremost responsibility is to teach our children how TO act, not how NOT to act. I think we focus way too much on trying to teach what is wrong, we forget to teach what is right.

I like this thought, as the number one thing I know about early parenting is that it is always better to state things in the positive ("You can say, 'I was using that,'" rather than, "We don't hit"). It's interesting to think about implications for bigger issues, in conjunction with talks when appropriate about why we don't do things, too. Imma ponder this.

Many thanks, krebscout and Katya!

Richard Dutcher has said that he does not appreciate his life being turned into a Sunday School lesson, and I have to say I feel the same way.

Exactamente. I would repost everything you say. It's even hard when they talk about something church-related and then qualify it with, "But this isn't directed to you!" As if that makes it easier to swallow. I know that this is all important to them, and I don't want to take it away, but... gah. It's hard.

Personally, I disagree with your sister because while she's possibly trying to avoid what she views as an awkward conversation with her kids, creating this aura of secrecy and deception isn't going to help her kids.

Agreed. Two of her children are definitely aware of teh gay, so there's no use trying to shelter them. My sister is a good mom, but I don't think the lying is good for the kiddos, and it's disrespectful to me, in my personal line of thought. Also, god forbid that one of them is gay and this is the message about it that they remember, that it is so terrible that it's something their mother lied about to cover up.

I don't agree with the lifestyle, and fully plan on teaching my children that it is a wrong choice, but if someone I was close to came out to me I would still be there friend. I would still let them be a part of my life and the lives of those that I'm responsible for. I may ask that they refrain from physical displays of affection in my home.

But see, that's just the thing. I don't make out with ANYONE in public, and most of us fun queerfolk don't do too much of that. I'd say that there is no statistically significant difference between the number of queer people who would do that and straight people who would do that. So if a queer person is making out in your home, please ask them to stop being gross and disrespectful. If a straight person is making out in your home, please ask them to stop being gross and disrespectful. Not that you meant this, UoE, but please don't ask me not to make out in your home ahead of time, because I know you wouldn't ask a straight couple that, and it may result in me snarkily telling you that the only place I march naked except for my glued-on feathers is my bedroom.

Imogen, I super love you. You too, Unlucky Stuntman.

Thanks again for your thoughts, everyone. I feel a little better now.

[Katya]

. . . please don't ask me not to make out in your home ahead of time, because I know you wouldn't ask a straight couple that . . .

Exactly.

[Marduk]

Personally, I ask straight couples TO make out in my home all the time. So in order to be fair, I'll make sure to ask same sex couples to make out in my home as well.

[Unit of Energy]

I actually have asked straight couples to stop making out in my home. I didn't until it became an issue, and since there were roommates involved it didn't exactly stop, but I have done it.

[mic0]

I am so glad to say I have never had to tell someone to stop making out in my home... Also, no one should make out in front of other people, imo. Bleh!

[C is for]

Personally, I ask straight couples TO make out in my home all the time. So in order to be fair, I'll make sure to ask same sex couples to make out in my home as well.

Oh man, Boyfriend and I are SO THERE. We love making out in other people's houses!!!

But only as long as the other couples making out aren't too noisy. Puts him off his game.

[Imogen]

Call me when you have to ask your roommates not to have intercourse with you in the room...

oh college....you were a special time indeed.

[krebscout]

Call me when you have to ask your roommates not to have intercourse with you in the room...

oh college....you were a special time indeed.

This made me giggle. For real? Did they know you were there? You weren't, like, hidden beneath a blanket asleep?

[Imogen]

She knew I was there. I'm a relatively heavy sleeper, but I wake up a lot during the night, so you can imagine what THAT was like to wake up to at 2am. I was scared to even move.

The next morning was a super awkward conversation, let me tell you.

[NerdGirl]

I never had a roommate have sex while I was in the room, but I was once on airplane in a window seat and the two people in the middle and aisle seat were under the blanket trying to have sex next to me. That was pretty gross. They got on the plane, saw me in the window seat, got pissed off that someone was sharing the row with them and tried to complain to the flight attendant, but there wasn't a row available for them to have all to themselves. I thought that was pretty weird, but then I proceeded to fall asleep. I was awakened sometime later by someone's knee poking me in the stomach, and I figured out why they wanted the row to themselves. I then put my own blanket over my head and tried to pretend I was somewhere else, but they gave up pretty soon. We were in a row where the armrests didn't go up, and I think that presented an insurmountable barrier to their attempted coitus.

[Zedability]

Also thanks for playing devil's advocate in such as respectful way.

I can't even tell you how glad I am that I came off as respectful to you, because I remember writing my response and just thinking, "Man, someone needs to play devil's advocate here, but I am going to look like a huge jerk."

[Imogen]

I never had a roommate have sex while I was in the room, but I was once on airplane in a window seat and the two people in the middle and aisle seat were under the blanket trying to have sex next to me. That was pretty gross. They got on the plane, saw me in the window seat, got pissed off that someone was sharing the row with them and tried to complain to the flight attendant, but there wasn't a row available for them to have all to themselves. I thought that was pretty weird, but then I proceeded to fall asleep. I was awakened sometime later by someone's knee poking me in the stomach, and I figured out why they wanted the row to themselves. I then put my own blanket over my head and tried to pretend I was somewhere else, but they gave up pretty soon. We were in a row where the armrests didn't go up, and I think that presented an insurmountable barrier to their attempted coitus.

oh that is just....so not ok....they couldn't just go in the bathroom like normal couples?!

[Emiliana]

*Hi, still not Mormon disclaimer here* Black Sheep, you know I <3 you. I think your siblings are being...well, I can't use the word I'm thinking of here, but it's a slang term for the male sex organ.

Seconded.

[Emiliana]

But when I was a teenager, I went through a period of time where I thought I might be bisexual or maybe even a lesbian. I don't identify that way now as an adult, but I am not a zero on the kinsey scale (my attraction to women showed up before my attraction to men did, although now my attraction to men is much stronger and I'm not interested in pursing relationships or anything else with women - but female sexuality is just complicated sometimes).

Thanks for sharing this, NerdGirl--I find it really interesting. My boyfriend and I had a conversation a few weeks ago that started off awkward and then turned utterly awesome in which we both acknowledged that we'd both gone through a period of wondering if we were bi. Sexuality is fluid, and I think a lot fewer people are totally, 100% straight than we might think.

[Craig Jessop]

I never had a roommate have sex while I was in the room, but I was once on airplane in a window seat and the two people in the middle and aisle seat were under the blanket trying to have sex next to me. That was pretty gross. They got on the plane, saw me in the window seat, got pissed off that someone was sharing the row with them and tried to complain to the flight attendant, but there wasn't a row available for them to have all to themselves. I thought that was pretty weird, but then I proceeded to fall asleep. I was awakened sometime later by someone's knee poking me in the stomach, and I figured out why they wanted the row to themselves. I then put my own blanket over my head and tried to pretend I was somewhere else, but they gave up pretty soon. We were in a row where the armrests didn't go up, and I think that presented an insurmountable barrier to their attempted coitus.

oh that is just....so not ok....they couldn't just go in the bathroom like normal couples?!

I just read this... hahahahahahahahahahaha

I had a roommate who did that. I wasn't okay with it.