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[Whistler]

my graduate cohort at BYU was definitely also left of the general BYU population.

And, bob just insulted Board writers at a forum where most people are/were writers/fans. She should expect some backlash. I find it hurtful as well.

[Zedability]

And, bob just insulted Board writers at a forum where most people are/were writers/fans. She should expect some backlash. I find it hurtful as well.

Exactly. When bob says the sophomores are too immature to be writers, and I'm the sophomore writer most active on this thread, it's pretty dang hard to not find it hurtful, or feel like I'm personally include in her assessment of people who are just starting out and therefore obviously too young to have ever had to think for themselves. Which is blanket stereotyping and is completely dismissive of my life experiences. I grew up in a country where I was taught social studies by an avowed communist for 3 years and taught English by an athiest, radical liberal feminist who hated Mormons. I got pretty used to questioning things and believing them for myself and not because it's what I was taught. I also grew up in an area that was ethnically and socio-economically diverse; some of my friends did farm chores at 5 am before school and wore secondhand clothes, and some of my friends' parents owned multiple companies. It wasn't uncommon for me to look around at my group of friends and realize that none of us spoke the same first-language. Meanwhile, I watched people close to me die. I spent half a year literally never knowing if my best friend would be there the next day.

Then I moved to a different country, where I knew nobody, entirely on my own financial resources, with about 90% of scholarships inaccessible to me because of my status as an international student and no possibility of government assistance. (My parents pay my transportation costs, but that's basically because they know I wouldn't come home very much if it were my responsibility.) While here, I've experienced plenty of culture shock, encountered a surprising amount of xenophobia, and have learned to understand viewpoints that I previously thought were completely inexplicable. Also, while missionary relationships are understandably associated with immaturity due to the ages of the people involved, I do think it requires some emotional maturity to handle a long-term long-distance relationship in such a way that the relationship doesn't just survive, but flourish.

But since I'm a sophomore, it obviously makes sense to just assume that I'm sheltered, naive, immature, and incapable of thinking for myself.

Obviously, I'm not nearly as mature as people who are older than me. Nor should I be. I still have lots to learn and the time to learn it. However, to make broad generalizations about everyone who falls into my demographic is to deny the legitimacy of my life experiences, and that is insulting. And to insist that having sophomore writers on the Board degrades its quality is a blatant insult to the time and effort I put into my answers.

[Gimgimno]

Stinky butt.

QFT.

[TheBlackSheep]

I'm with the folks who think the social sciences at BYU are left of BYU-center. The general classes I took (psych 111, anthr 101, etc.) were probably about even with the population at large, but as my classes got more specialized I feel it was definitely left of BYU center. That's part of the reason I chose my major. I don't mean that as criticism of BYU as that's just how BYU is. BYU was an interesting life choice for me and I just survived better in the social sciences. The people in the HFAC at least were a more liberal bunch than the folks in the social sciences, but I'd say both were decisively left of BYU-center.

And bob, I'm saying this as your friend: you have talked a lot on this board about your upbringing and how you have overcome certain shortcomings of that upbringing, and I'm super happy for you (as I've repeatedly expressed), but you've gotta watch it with the projection. As they say in my business, take a look at it. There may be a blindspot there.

[Genuine Article]

You are not free to insult the members of this board so passive-aggressively (even if they post their thoughts tactlessly) and definitely not free to disparage this board. When you have comments about the content of this board, you are free to express them in a substantive way.

I say if you guys are going to talk smack about/discuss the shortcomings of our Board we should be free to return the favor.

[S.A.M.]

There are thousands of people at BYU who have a wide array of experiences and skills that would make them wonderful board writers. Finding them may be difficult, but we've always had hits and misses on the board.

How can the board do a better job of finding these people? How can the application process identify the applicants who have the potential to become excellent writers?

The application needs to identify those that are willing to put consistent effort into their writership to gain the reward. Kind of like Gimgimno's dating application, if he would actually respond when the code is solved...

Being a board writer stretches and helps students grow, mature, and become great writers. Very few start out with fantastic skills. I enjoy seeing writers get better. It wouldn't be as fascinating if they all started out amazing.

[Zedability]

You are not free to insult the members of this board so passive-aggressively (even if they post their thoughts tactlessly) and definitely not free to disparage this board. When you have comments about the content of this board, you are free to express them in a substantive way.

I say if you guys are going to talk smack about/discuss the shortcomings of our Board we should be free to return the favor.

In fairness, this whole things started out as constructive brainstorming about how to select better writers by changing the applications, whereas Optimus jumped straight into calling the Boardboard "purile." But I do feel like there's been a double standard throughout this thread regarding who is allowed to insult who.

[No Dice]

I'm not sure that's completely fair to Optimus; his early critiques were measured and fair, and his "puerile drivel" comment was clearly reactionary—hardly something he "jumped straight into."

[Zedability]

I'm not sure that's completely fair to Optimus; his early critiques were measured and fair, and his "puerile drivel" comment was clearly reactionary—hardly something he "jumped straight into."

Yeah, I guess that's true. I guess it would be more accurate to say, the first thing I remember him saying about the Boardboard was the "purile drivel" thing; his earlier critiques focused on the ideas being presented, as opposed to the Boardboard itself. Like, his other critiques were focused on the specific conversation, and then this comment slandered the Boardboard generally.

But yeah, he didn't actually jump straight into it, that was inaccurate to say.

[Marduk]

For the record, I have also reprimanded Bob, as her comments were tactlessly phrased, at best. She spoke in generalities that obviously don't hold true to all people, especially you, Zed. I suppose I should make it clear that both Bob and Optimus were out of line, even though I reprimanded one publicly and the other privately. If Optimus feels that he would have rather had me say something to him privately, he is free to voice that opinion.

As to the other point, I'm more than willing to admit, given the anecdotal evidence, that I could certainly be wrong. Which surprises me even more about Gimgimno's comments; I wonder if you could elucidate on them, as it seems many here have had a different experience than you?

[Squirrel]

To everyone here- I'm sorry for losing my temper. I'm a lot more sensitive, and took everything about Board applicants personally because I am applying. Obviously not all the comments were directed at me.

[TheAnswerIs42]

I'm going to stay out of this one, since I got too riled up the last time bob insulted everyone else on here, but I just wanted to throw in my vote that I LIKE that the 100 Hour Board is fairly conservative and written by students. With the BYU name slapped up on top, it has to represent the University and, consequently, the church, so it can't be filled with anti-Mormon chatter. At this point in my spiritual journey, I personally enjoy reading these more "Pa Grape" sort of answers. And as was mentioned earlier, agreeing with the conservative viewpoint doesn't make me "close-minded" or mean I haven't considered that position for a good portion of my life. And I (as an old person 'round these parts) find it fun to see questions about dating and classes and such to be answered by people in the same boat as those asking them. Nostalgia, I suppose. I think the writers over the years do a wonderful job of writing thoughtful, honest and comforting responses to the more "thank goodness I am anonymous" questions. In short, I read the 100 Hour Board because I LIKE IT THE WAY IT IS. I come here to discuss the topics that come up on there because sometimes there can be great discussions on some of those questions.

Which all leads me to wonder, why on earth are people on the message board for the 100 Hour Board if they don't like the 100 Hour Board? And why would you want it to change just because it doesn't fit what you want it to be?

[Giovanni Schwartz]

42, you're the best. I give another vote for what she said.

[TheBlackSheep]

... I LIKE that the 100 Hour Board is fairly conservative and written by students. With the BYU name slapped up on top, it has to represent the University and, consequently, the church, so it can't be filled with anti-Mormon chatter.

Not that this is what you meant, but liberal doesn't necessarily mean anti-Mormon, etc. Just for the sake of argument.

I've registered some criticisms of the Board as being overly representative of a portion (given, a large portion, a majority portion) of the BYU experience while not representing other portions of it as well. However, the Board is a BYU publication and has to be expected to be conservative and representative of official BYU standards. Sometimes this is frustrating to me, but if it was different it could not exist as the Board. I feel like the Board is always going back and forth between being more conservative and more liberal. Everybody here can guess which one of those frustrates me more.

I will say this for the Board, though: the Board writers I knew when I was writing and shortly after I was writing were generally the most open-minded, thoughtful, down-to-earth people I knew while I was at BYU. (That's not a knock at more recent writers; I just don't know many of you guys.) Did the general BYU population often drive me bats? Yes. Did some Board writers drive me bats? YES. But one of the perks of being a writer is that you get to associate with those people, and those people, even when they're young, are generally awesome.

And you guys, I think a lot of us on here are capable of being more courteous than we have been on this thread. Can we please stop sniping at each other? It hurts my tender sensibilities. I'm such a delicate flower, you know.

[Squirrel]

And you guys, I think a lot of us on here are capable of being more courteous than we have been on this thread. Can we please stop sniping at each other? It hurts my tender sensibilities. I'm such a delicate flower, you know.

Thanks Sheep. I feel the same way. I don't like the angry vibes that have been going on- I admit, I have contributed to them as well. I'm not singling out anyone. This used to be a friendly place. I hope we can all (me included) lift each other up.

[Marduk]

Thanks, Squirrel. I agree. I hope we can lift each other up.

I have to say I'm disappointed in all of you. The hive mind mentality that has come out in these discussions has been particularly destructive, and it is entirely unchristlike. So Bob said a few things that some of you disagreed with, or even found insulting. Yes, that was wrong. And how have you responded? Passive aggressive insults, snide remarks, defensive gestures, harsh antagonisms, and trolling. Only one person had something the least bit constructive to say to her (and of course it was TheBlackSheep. We have come to expect no less.)

First Optimus gets his pride hurt, references excellent writers who have really nothing to do with the situation, thus substituting a straw man argument in order to make Bob look like a villain, and insults everything on this board (as a response to saying that often writers are immature.) Then 42 remembers a past insult, claims that "everyone else" was insulted and offended by Bob, because a few people were, says she will "stay out of it" but first wants to get her insults in without anyone else getting a chance to respond. Then Gio trolls the whole point by adding his +1 to that comment. (For the record, just because YOU like something the way it is doesn't mean everyone who says it might be better to do something differently is wrong.)

In short, I expect this board, whatever else it does, to represent Christ in the way we behave to each other. I tried to leave this thread alone to see if people could play nice when someone disagreed with them (even insultingly so, but as I said, I did ask her to rephrase what she said, and even apologize for it. But I'm not so sure that would even satisfy most of you; you're unhappy enough that she would change something you all are so attached to.) Instead, I come to find that everyone has ganged up on her, rather than trying to disagree in a more kind and gentle way.

I'm sure many of you will write off what I say, since I'm sure many of you think I am arrogant, and am speaking from that perspective, or that I'm simply defending Bob because of our relationship. These things are not true, and I'd ask if you all could consider in your heart if you've behaved in a way that you think represents your best self, and maybe try to be a bit kinder around here.

That's all. I'm leaving this thread open in case anyone wants to continue in the vein of kindness that TheBlackSheep and Squirrel have so magnanimously started.

[Zedability]

^^^ You're right. I've been thinking to myself that I let myself get excessively reactive in what I said here. We're all being immature.

[TheAnswerIs42]

Dang, I when I typed my response, I honestly thought I was trying to smooth things over with my response, but when I re-read it, I can see two things I omitted. First of all, BlackSheep is who I was thinking about when I said that "the writers over the years do a wonderful job of writing thoughtful, honest and comforting responses to the more 'thank goodness I am anonymous' questions." To me, that is part of why we do need the more liberal balance, and why you were one of my favorite writers. And that's why I said that I always appreciated the Board as it has been - I think there has been some variety, and that is good. I just saw everyone attacking the conservative viewpoint and only defended them.

And my last paragraph wasn't typed in a mean tone, but now that I read it, I realize that is probably how it was taken. I meant it in a head scratching, "how does this work?" tone. I honestly would love an answer to that, not because I feel like you have to defend your reason to be here, but because I honestly have no idea. If you don't like the Board and haven't read it for years, why is this where you like to come? Why not go to another place that is more liberal, instead of coming here and saying you want us to change?

[Whistler]

Marduk, for some reason, you telling everyone they're not being Christlike enough is really ticking me off. You'll notice that not everyone has commented on this thread. I consider restraint a Christlike virtue. Maybe I was wrong to say how I felt. But not "all of us" have even participated. Also, yes, I do think being in a relationship with bob makes you less objective in this--for one, you did not treat her the same way as you did Optimus (by reprimanding her privately). I expect you to treat her differently, so please acknowledge your bias.

I don't know bob well enough to take The Black Sheep's position. Imagine if I said something similar: "bob, do you think that you see Board writers as immature because you see your past self in them, and now that you've changed, it's a part you don't like?" It would come off as really patronizing since I'd be assuming so many things I don't know, and also that I knew bob better than she herself does. That's why I have to take what she says as she wrote it. I don't know if she regrets writing things the way she did. For all I know she thinks I'm a sheltered child with no room for improvement, and that makes it hard to start a conversation. So bob, if you're reading this I'd encourage you to clarify your comments and apologize (even if you didn't mean for your comments to insult us, we don't know that), because I usually respect your opinion and I think you could contribute to a constructive criticism of Board culture.

There are valid complaints about how Board writers have written answers. I think it is much more constructive to single out those answers as close-minded or poorly-researched. And I think on this forum we do a really good job of noticing both the stupid answers and the great ones. I'm willing to dialogue about how Board writers could improve their training, but I'm not going passively sit here and be insulted without standing up for myself.

[Giovanni Schwartz]

Sorry, I'm trolling? By saying I agreed with what 42 said?

Then 42 remembers a past insult, claims that "everyone else" was insulted and offended by Bob, because a few people were, says she will "stay out of it" but first wants to get her insults in without anyone else getting a chance to respond. Then Gio trolls the whole point by adding his +1 to that comment. (For the record, just because YOU like something the way it is doesn't mean everyone who says it might be better to do something differently is wrong.)

Now you've kind of offended me. And I'm not really easily offended. All I was trying to do was add weight to her argument, by saying that she wasn't the only one who thought that way, and then I get accused of trolling? You specifically said in your rebuttal that "everyone else" was insulted without believing it, when it seems to me that bob is, in fact, the ONLY one arguing her point of view.

I don't mean to overreact, but I think that I need to take a break from this board for a while. If anyone wants to get in contact with me, you can facebook me or email/chat with me at gio.schwarts@gmail.com. I feel like this board has not become exactly what I need to spend so much time participating in.

I love you all.