Dysfunctional Families

[Emiliana]

Dysfunctional families: https://theboard.byu.edu/questions/73629/

Good answers from both TEN and yay's friend. I'd like to second TEN's statement that the questioner's future relationships are not, not, not doomed because of her family's problems! Anyone who doesn't want to date you because of your family is dumb. It isn't easy, but someone who loves you will be willing to work through it with you. And a good premarital counselor never hurts, either, when you get to that point.

[Portia]

Dysfunctional families: https://theboard.byu.edu/questions/73629/

Good answers from both TEN and yay's friend. I'd like to second TEN's statement that the questioner's future relationships are not, not, not doomed because of her family's problems! Anyone who doesn't want to date you because of your family is dumb. It isn't easy, but someone who loves you will be willing to work through it with you. And a good premarital counselor never hurts, either, when you get to that point.

Any advice for someone who thinks that their family life almost certainly does impact their relationship, in complex, not-always-great ways?

(The less it involved therapists, the better. They seem to vary between shocked by what to me is just reality, to condescendingly pitying me. UGH.)

[Emiliana]

Well, for me there was a shift from thinking "I don't want my marriage to be ______________" to thinking "I DO want my marriage to be _________________." When I find myself repeating patterns that I saw in my own family, instead of freaking out and being like "OH NO I'M DOOOOOOOOOMED!", I try to think, "Okay, well, what behavior or attitude would be more helpful here?"

[Emiliana]

That, and lots and lots of communication.

[blpsara]

Well, for me there was a shift from thinking "I don't want my marriage to be ______________" to thinking "I DO want my marriage to be _________________." When I find myself repeating patterns that I saw in my own family, instead of freaking out and being like "OH NO I'M DOOOOOOOOOMED!", I try to think, "Okay, well, what behavior or attitude would be more helpful here?"

I like that Emiliana. While I'm not married, I think I need to shift my thinking in that direction as well - instead of what I'm not, focus on what I want to be.

[bobtheenchantedone]

To respond to a different aspect of that question, I was just talking to Marduk about the "perfect family" assumption the other day! The comment that prompted it was something along the lines of "remember how awesome your earthly parents are - isn't it mind-blowing that Heavenly Father is an even better father than that?"

No. No, it's not amazing to realize that Heavenly Father is better than my parents. My parents, for all that I love them, are not that great at being parents, and it really bothers me speakers and teachers in the Church assume that all of our parents are nigh-perfect. Not to mention the other assumptions - I've heard speakers reference everyone's great childhood, forget that some of the congregation are converts to the Church, etc. We as a church need to move away from that kind of language entirely.

[Portia]

@bob

My absent, remote biological father who has no interest or contact with me is actually a fantastic metaphor for how I feel about Heavenly Father, so-called! #noreally

This is why Uchtdorf is "the cool apostle." Time and time again, I somehow feel a lot more valuable as a person after hearing his talks.

Because guess what, churchy people, your own father not wanting you actually sucks ... whether you believe in eternal families or not.

(For the record, my dad is great, even though we don't have tons in common. There is some imagery about being "adopted" in that I like. And he's my only living parent whom I actually know.)

[Emiliana]

Eesh, yeah, that would definitely be emotionally counterproductive.

I've also heard a different take on the whole God-is-our-Father thing. I remember being at a Bible study once where a guy said that his father had left when he was a kid, but then as an adolescent he was able to view God as the father he'd never really had, a father who wouldn't be a *()#@& and leave like his own dad did. So maybe instead of, "Hey guess what? God is EVEN BETTER than your dad!!", a more fitting way of looking at it is, "Whether your own dad is good, bad, or indifferent, you can know that God is a much better father than that." Kind of goes along with Portia's bit about adoption.

(From there I got to thinking about how if guys without dads can think of God as their father, why shouldn't I think of God as my mother? Not being from a tradition that places a whole lot of emphasis on God being physiologically male, I then went through a phase of praying to my Heavenly Mother instead of Heavenly Father. (Who I think is actually a separate being in Mormon theology, but that's not quite where I was going with it.) Anyway, but then I became an atheist, so I'm not really sure why I felt like I had a whole lot to contribute to this conversation?)

[Katya]

To respond to a different aspect of that question, I was just talking to Marduk about the "perfect family" assumption the other day! The comment that prompted it was something along the lines of "remember how awesome your earthly parents are - isn't it mind-blowing that Heavenly Father is an even better father than that?"

No. No, it's not amazing to realize that Heavenly Father is better than my parents. My parents, for all that I love them, are not that great at being parents, and it really bothers me speakers and teachers in the Church assume that all of our parents are nigh-perfect. Not to mention the other assumptions - I've heard speakers reference everyone's great childhood, forget that some of the congregation are converts to the Church, etc. We as a church need to move away from that kind of language entirely.

I have a pretty good relationship with my parents, but my relationship with God still improved markedly once I realized that there were certain qualities my parents had that He didn't have. (Or the reverse, depending on how you look at it.)

[Katya]

Eesh, yeah, that would definitely be emotionally counterproductive.

I've also heard a different take on the whole God-is-our-Father thing. I remember being at a Bible study once where a guy said that his father had left when he was a kid, but then as an adolescent he was able to view God as the father he'd never really had, a father who wouldn't be a *()#@& and leave like his own dad did. So maybe instead of, "Hey guess what? God is EVEN BETTER than your dad!!", a more fitting way of looking at it is, "Whether your own dad is good, bad, or indifferent, you can know that God is a much better father than that." Kind of goes along with Portia's bit about adoption.

(From there I got to thinking about how if guys without dads can think of God as their father, why shouldn't I think of God as my mother? Not being from a tradition that places a whole lot of emphasis on God being physiologically male, I then went through a phase of praying to my Heavenly Mother instead of Heavenly Father. (Who I think is actually a separate being in Mormon theology, but that's not quite where I was going with it.) Anyway, but then I became an atheist, so I'm not really sure why I felt like I had a whole lot to contribute to this conversation?)

There are a lot of things I like about Mormonism's embodied God, but that concept can also be very alienating or hurtful because we don't have the flexibility to treat Him as being interchangeable with with a mother. (And I'm always happy to hear your input on things, E.)

[Emiliana]

(That probably came out more self-degrading than I meant for it to, I just find it ironic when I post about religious issues.)

How does the Heavenly Mother play into Mormon theology? Could you pray to her, or would that be too ... polytheistic?

[Portia]

(That probably came out more self-degrading than I meant for it to, I just find it ironic when I post about religious issues.)

How does the Heavenly Mother play into Mormon theology? Could you pray to her, or would that be too ... polytheistic?

Some feminist Mormons have adopted the practice of praying to the Heavenly Mother. However, deceased LDS Church President Gordon B. Hinckley opposed this practice, saying that Mormons should not pray to the Heavenly Mother, saying that Christ instructed his disciples to address the Heavenly Father in their prayers.[15] A feminist professor was fired from Brigham Young University, one of the reasons being her public advocacy of praying to Heavenly Mother.[16]

The whole article on Heavenly Mother should be helpful.

[TheBlackSheep]

(The less it involved therapists, the better. They seem to vary between shocked by what to me is just reality, to condescendingly pitying me. UGH.)

Dude, I don't mean to be the therapy pusher or to sound condescending, but maybe this is a nudge toward therapy. Maybe your reality needs adjusting in big ways. And how many have you tried? Never stick with a condescending one, but it can take a lot of tries.

[Portia]

(The less it involved therapists, the better. They seem to vary between shocked by what to me is just reality, to condescendingly pitying me. UGH.)

Dude, I don't mean to be the therapy pusher or to sound condescending, but maybe this is a nudge toward therapy. Maybe your reality needs adjusting in big ways. And how many have you tried? Never stick with a condescending one, but it can take a lot of tries.

I've only tried BYU-affiliated ones. Not to paint them with a broad brush (I was glad they honored confidentiality, and I LOVED that freaking biofeedback lab), but I just never had a great experience.

It's a Catch-22. I'm a neurotic, anxious person, and the process of (1) dealing with the nested menu joyfest that is modern scheduling and (2) talking to a stranger, when I'm kind of a misanthrope and have maje trust issues sometimes makes me MORE anxious.

I need an unpaid intern to get therapy for me.

[Portia]

Mostly for TBS, unless you love TMI.

Also, and this is completely speculative, so NaCl, but I often got the impression that my "issues" were unlike what was more "typically" seen at the Y. You know how they'll reframe your statements into questions? I sometimes felt like they would interpret what I was saying, in a way that obfuscated the issue.

Exempli grata: Portia says, "I feel torn about my relationship and have a hard time communicating."
Therapist says, "it sounds like maybe you want to break up?"
Portia: "No!"
Therapist: "Well, if you want a man to support you ..."
Portia: "What? That's not what I said. I said that I wished he were more ambitious or had more concrete plans."

This is a paraphrase of what might typically happen. Another

Shocked Bougie Therapist: "Um, so your grandfather apparently committed suicide?"
Portia: "Well, yeah, the form asked, so there you are."
SBT: "I imagine that must have been really hard for you."
Portia: "I ... never met him in my life. Not really."
SBT: "I'm sure you feel a big hole in your heart."
Portia: "NO THIS IS NOT THE ISSUE."

Therapists are just people, too, and dude, I pretty much hate people. (Individual persons can be lovely.)

I don't think I'm socially impaired or anything, but I feel like I'm pretty blunt. Also, rehearsing the whole "tragic" story of my youth gets tiresome.

[Emiliana]

I once had a therapist spend 45 seconds looking at my intake form, 15 minutes explaining to me that all of my problems were cause of my dead mom, and 40 minutes lecturing me about why deep breathing was important and psychiatrists were evil. Yep. I didn't go back to her.

[Imogen]

I had a therapist who had to make my mom stop teaching me to drive because of how much she screamed at me in the car and made me cry.

We have a family curse, which is mental illness. It kind of dilutes as the generations go on, but it hangs over us. My brother and I struggle with suicidal ideation (he attempted in high school. Glad he failed!). My mom does too. My niece had a nervous break down in an airport and basically kidnapped a small child, but she didn't end up arrested (my life really doesn't sound real sometimes, does it? I assure you, it is). It scares me because it makes me rethink my desire to have kids. And, of course, as I get older, I wonder if God has chosen me for the single-life vocation permanently to keep from passing on the family curse. I guess I'll see.

[Giovanni Schwartz]

Portia, this one made me think of you and your therapist.

http://iwastesomuchtime.com/on/?i=79157

[Emiliana]

I had a therapist who had to make my mom stop teaching me to drive because of how much she screamed at me in the car and made me cry.

We have a family curse, which is mental illness. It kind of dilutes as the generations go on, but it hangs over us. My brother and I struggle with suicidal ideation (he attempted in high school. Glad he failed!). My mom does too. My niece had a nervous break down in an airport and basically kidnapped a small child, but she didn't end up arrested (my life really doesn't sound real sometimes, does it? I assure you, it is). It scares me because it makes me rethink my desire to have kids. And, of course, as I get older, I wonder if God has chosen me for the single-life vocation permanently to keep from passing on the family curse. I guess I'll see.

Sigh. Mental illness is no fun, is it? Marx and I aren't planning on having kids partially for that reason -- OCD, depression, alcoholism, panic attacks, bipolar disorder, etc., all run rampant in both our families. But adoption is always an option that doesn't involve passing on all those not-so-fun genes.

[Portia]

Unsurprisingly, the fifteen-minute intake phone interview (is there anything worse?) ended with me in tears. It was a horrible experience, definitely worse than the underlying anxiety.

Talking about your problems makes them worse. Expecting people who are already on edge to deal with talk-you-off-the-ledge types is, frankly, unrealistic.

I'll diagnose myself:

The difference between social anxiety and normal apprehension of social situations is that social anxiety involves an intense feeling of fear in social situations and especially situations that are unfamiliar or in which one will be watched or evaluated by others. The feeling of fear is so great that in these types of situations one may be so worried that he or she feels anxious just thinking about them and will go to great lengths to avoid them.

Voilà.

Since I'm not depressed, I function more or less well (I have a job, I can get up in the morning, I'm in good contact with my family and friends), I just am having a hard time overcoming the horrible panic that comes from these kind of situations.

I'm seriously considering just talking to a Mormon leader, instead. I realize they aren't necessarily as highly trained, but I don't generally start crying and hyperventilating, either.

Email was pretty much invented for people like me. And it probably would be surprising to people with only a passing acquaintance of me, since I'm very extroverted.

Having to take pills to go talk to the people who give you pills is stupid. I think clearly I just need more sleep, a better diet, and a less stressful lifestyle. Talking to some stranger won't bring back my mom/exes/overseas brother/hometown.