little factories

[Portia]

It's been a while since we've had a controversial thread. I'm laying down the gauntlet. I think the LDS obsession about masturbation is not only unhealthy and counterproductive, but unprecedented.

I've never seen any ill effects from occasional, discreet masturbation. In fact, I think that those who took care of their own needs were better equipped to feel in control of their sexuality, rather than the reverse. However, I have seen lots of emotionally stunted men whose conflicted feelings about sex pretty much makes them into sex-obsessed jerks, ridiculously hopeless romantics ("If I marry you, Portia, on such a short acquaintance then my sexuality will have an outlet!" Yikes), or a combination of the two. I've also seen frigid and terrified women who could have benefited greatly from some solo experience.

I think it's stupid, out of date, and should become one of those things that no one takes seriously (like Catholics and birth control, say). If someone wants to keep their virginity for some relational commitment or abstain from pornography, that's their choice and I can support that. Giving masturbation/arousal a salience it doesn't have is something that drives people to near-suicidal guilt and depression and I'm so over it.

[Emiliana]

It's been a while since we've had a controversial thread. I'm laying down the gauntlet. I think the LDS obsession about masturbation is not only unhealthy and counterproductive, but unprecedented.

I've never seen any ill effects from occasional, discreet masturbation. In fact, I think that those who took care of their own needs were better equipped to feel in control of their sexuality, rather than the reverse. However, I have seen lots of emotionally stunted men whose conflicted feelings about sex pretty much makes them into sex-obsessed jerks, ridiculously hopeless romantics ("If I marry you, Portia, on such a short acquaintance then my sexuality will have an outlet!" Yikes), or a combination of the two. I've also seen frigid and terrified women who could have benefited greatly from some solo experience.

I think it's stupid, out of date, and should become one of those things that no one takes seriously (like Catholics and birth control, say). If someone wants to keep their virginity for some relational commitment or abstain from pornography, that's their choice and I can support that. Giving masturbation/arousal a salience it doesn't have is something that drives people to near-suicidal guilt and depression and I'm so over it.

+1

[SmurfBlueSnuggie]

How would you define the difference between someone who avoids masturbation because of tradition and one who avoids it due to personal conviction that it is not the right choice for them? The two reasonings are often tightly interconnected.

[Portia]

How would you define the difference between someone who avoids masturbation because of tradition and one who avoids it due to personal conviction that it is not the right choice for them? The two reasonings are often tightly interconnected.

I don't see a difference, and I think they are both misguided and silly.

[mic0]

Why did you title this 'little factories'?

[Digit]

I wonder if the other great apes do it.

[Portia]

Why did you title this 'little factories'?

You've missed out. Found the original, randomly, at Eborn books, which provided good fodder for dinner parties this past week.

[mic0]

OoOoooh. Thanks.

"...which provided good fodder for dinner parties this past week."

I bet.

[Portia]

Pray for President Monson. O_O

[Whistler]

Why did you title this 'little factories'?

You've missed out. Found the original, randomly, at Eborn books, which provided good fodder for dinner parties this past week.

wow, I only read parts and there is so much bad advice. I can't believe he recommends fasting for dealing with masturbation urges... talk about a recipe for an eating disorder.

[Digit]

Looks like a number of species beyond the great apes do it. Dolphins wrapping wriggling live eels around their penises

[Katya]

How would you define the difference between someone who avoids masturbation because of tradition and one who avoids it due to personal conviction that it is not the right choice for them? The two reasonings are often tightly interconnected.

But there's going to be a lot more social guilt associated with the former situation than with the latter.

[Dragon Lady]

How would you define the difference between someone who avoids masturbation because of tradition and one who avoids it due to personal conviction that it is not the right choice for them? The two reasonings are often tightly interconnected.

But there's going to be a lot more social guilt associated with the former situation than with the latter.

I think there are a lot of choices, especially in the mormon church, that have grey lines like this. It's important that when that grey line causes problems, we take time to stop and figure out which one it is. Specifically for the reason Katya mentions.

[SmurfBlueSnuggie]

How would you define the difference between someone who avoids masturbation because of tradition and one who avoids it due to personal conviction that it is not the right choice for them? The two reasonings are often tightly interconnected.

But there's going to be a lot more social guilt associated with the former situation than with the latter.

I think there are a lot of choices, especially in the mormon church, that have grey lines like this. It's important that when that grey line causes problems, we take time to stop and figure out which one it is. Specifically for the reason Katya mentions.

I am coming to discover that more and more. The reason for an action is often so much more impactful than the action itself.

[Katya]

The reason for an action is often so much more impactful than the action itself.

YES. And if you want to change the action (or at a minimum, understand it), you need to look at the reasons, not at the action itself.

[Portia]

I just think that the rhetoric is incredibly damaging. As if the homophobia weren't galling enough, the idea of control/masculinity/that-chick's-clavicles-made-me-do-it makes me think that if this is your "personal conviction," five to one you have issues.

And I don't know any guys who enjoyed their, um, masturbatory abstinence. I know my friend group may be an outlier, but every guy I know was happier once they accepted it as a part of life (And none of them are crazy sex addicts or anything. Plenty waited til marriage or a serious, loving relationship to have sex.) Interestingly, none of the women I know ever seemed to care in the first place. Maybe because the rhetoric about female masturbation is so different, or non-existent.