Humor will not be tolerated!! -Portia

Marduk wrote:The ward that meets in my building right before us is a poly ward. I see maybe about a half dozen of those every Sunday. Once the novelty wears off, I'm not sure how I feel about it.

What do you mean? (I.e., what emotions are you torn between?)

yayfulness wrote:I wear pants to church every week.

Well yes, but I'm a girl.

I don't know whether I like the idea and find it refreshing to see some diversity of dress, or whether I'm feeling cynical and think it is an attempt to eschew norms for eschewing norms' sake.

Marduk wrote:I don't know whether I like the idea and find it refreshing to see some diversity of dress, or whether I'm feeling cynical and think it is an attempt to eschew norms for eschewing norms' sake.

I have words on this general topic.

A couple years ago a young man came to our ward in a kilt. I did not like it at all. It seemed attention-getting or, like Marduk said, eschewing norms just to eschew norms.

But a month or so a guy gave his homecoming speech after getting back from New Zealand. He was wearing a lava-lava and a few leis with his suit jacket and tie. I didn't find that disrespectful at all -- probably because his purpose in wearing it was to show respect. I don't think he wears those to church every Sunday, but it was a special time for him to commemorate his service in NZ and I found it perfectly appropriate.

I think the reason behind the mode of dress makes a lot of difference.

C is for wrote:

Marduk wrote:I don't know whether I like the idea and find it refreshing to see some diversity of dress, or whether I'm feeling cynical and think it is an attempt to eschew norms for eschewing norms' sake.

I have words on this general topic.

A couple years ago a young man came to our ward in a kilt. I did not like it at all. It seemed attention-getting or, like Marduk said, eschewing norms just to eschew norms.

But a month or so a guy gave his homecoming speech after getting back from New Zealand. He was wearing a lava-lava and a few leis with his suit jacket and tie. I didn't find that disrespectful at all -- probably because his purpose in wearing it was to show respect. I don't think he wears those to church every Sunday, but it was a special time for him to commemorate his service in NZ and I found it perfectly appropriate.

I think the reason behind the mode of dress makes a lot of difference.

I don't think conformity for conformity's sake is worthwhile. As a person of Scottish descent, I find kilts for formal occasions to be quite cool. And I would be elated to never see a young attractive man in a white shirt at church again: I feel like unless it's the Presidential debates, or you're Stephen Colbert, colored collared shirts look better on most guys. (Especially pasty Mormon ones of Northern European descent.)

C is for wrote:

Marduk wrote:A couple years ago a young man came to our ward in a kilt. I did not like it at all. It seemed attention-getting or, like Marduk said, eschewing norms just to eschew norms.

As a child of 6 or 7 I was asked to give a mini-talk about the first Thanksgiving in sacrament meeting. I rehearsed my talk until I had it down perfectly, and before I left for church I refused to take any notes with me because I knew my talk by heart. Except when I got up there to speak I noticed a man in the congregation was wearing a kilt, which completely threw me for a loop and I forgot every word of my talk right there on the spot. So my mom had to come and whisper in my ear and help me, which made me mad because were it not for that kilt-wearing guy I would have been able to give my talk perfectly. Long story short, I'm against people wearing kilts to church.

Marduk wrote:I don't know whether I like the idea and find it refreshing to see some diversity of dress, or whether I'm feeling cynical and think it is an attempt to eschew norms for eschewing norms' sake.

Mormon wards (and dress codes) are so straitlaced, I have no issue with a little dress code rebellion for its own sake. (Of course, the last time I was in a ward where a guy showed up in a kilt, he looked terrible because he didn't have the legs for it. So I guess that's where I draw the line.)

Katya wrote:

Marduk wrote:I don't know whether I like the idea and find it refreshing to see some diversity of dress, or whether I'm feeling cynical and think it is an attempt to eschew norms for eschewing norms' sake.

Mormon wards (and dress codes) are so straitlaced, I have no issue with a little dress code rebellion for its own sake. (Of course, the last time I was in a ward where a guy showed up in a kilt, he looked terrible because he didn't have the legs for it. So I guess that's where I draw the line.)

Number 5 can wear a kilt to any LDS meeting he'd like. Pernas impressionantes!

I suppose my complaint is a little more complex than that. I find it problematic to use culture as a reason to eschew those norms. For instance, a poly showing up in a lava lava is unique and different, were I to do it, I'd just be a poser. So it almost seems like privileging one culture over another.

Marduk wrote:I suppose my complaint is a little more complex than that. I find it problematic to use culture as a reason to eschew those norms. For instance, a poly showing up in a lava lava is unique and different, were I to do it, I'd just be a poser. So it almost seems like privileging one culture over another.

Isn't it privileging (Anglo-)American culture to have their formal dress standards override those of almost every other culture?

Wear a sombrero with a tie that says EH? instead. Or use a hockey stick as a Noah-ish walking stick. Use it to part the chatting jams in the halls.

I would come to your ward to see that.

Katya wrote:Isn't it privileging (Anglo-)American culture to have their formal dress standards override those of almost every other culture?

Aaaamen.

I think it is significantly more extensive than you give it credit for. That being said, I think altering church dress standards to better reflect the native cultures is a great idea. And guess what the native culture is here?

Slightly tangentially relevant: In the Taiwan temple, everyone removes their shoes just inside the door, as is the culture when entering any house in Taiwan. So I think there is already some evidence of this.

Marduk wrote:I think it is significantly more extensive than you give it credit for. That being said, I think altering church dress standards to better reflect the native cultures is a great idea. And guess what the native culture is here?

...boring?

Giovanni Schwartz wrote:Slightly tangentially relevant: In the Taiwan temple, everyone removes their shoes just inside the door, as is the culture when entering any house in Taiwan. So I think there is already some evidence of this.

A tangent to your tangent: there's a whole room for shoes in the Anchorage, Alaska temple. I've been raised to think that not removing your shoes at the door of someone's home is weird, but that's probably because wearing boots (or even just shoes tracking up who knows what) inside is not among the brightest of ideas.

Dead Cat wrote:

Giovanni Schwartz wrote:Slightly tangentially relevant: In the Taiwan temple, everyone removes their shoes just inside the door, as is the culture when entering any house in Taiwan. So I think there is already some evidence of this.

A tangent to your tangent: there's a whole room for shoes in the Anchorage, Alaska temple. I've been raised to think that not removing your shoes at the door of someone's home is weird, but that's probably because wearing boots (or even just shoes tracking up who knows what) inside is not among the brightest of ideas.

I was going to say exactly the same thing about the Cardston Temple

UnluckyStuntman wrote:...boring?

Meh, you only say that because it is the culture you grew up with. If you were an outsider looking in, I guarantee you'd be fascinated. (Seriously though, ties. They are the wierdest thing ever. We don't think about it because we are so used to them, but why is hanging a strip of fabric from your neck a thing?)

They were originally used as basically classy bibs.