Stuff we're reading / watching / listening to

[Katya]

I just saw Alex Knightley (from Emma Approved) on a phone commercial!

[SmurfBlueSnuggie]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/us/a- ... .html?_r=0

What excommunication of feminists is referenced in this? Also, it's an interesting article. And I like how it's pretty neutral and presents a variety of opinions about how women are treated and viewed in the church.

[Portia]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/us/a- ... .html?_r=0

What excommunication of feminists is referenced in this? Also, it's an interesting article. And I like how it's pretty neutral and presents a variety of opinions about how women are treated and viewed in the church.

The September Six. Read up. Exactly 20 years ago now. (I have a half-written short story about it that I really ought to polish and submit.) Pretty dark time, in my opinion. A lot has changed in twenty years, considering that there are men and women agitating for greater changes, and they're not automatically ousted.

This was the heyday of Elder Boyd Packer and his condemnation of "homosexuals, feminists and intellectuals." (Two for three, I'm afraid.) One of my missionary friends posted in Spanish about succession in the church ... not gonna lie, I about had a heart attack. President Thomas Monson projects a much more welcoming image. Elder Packer would be a P.R. nightmare, I think. (Contrast the reaction to Pope Francis vs. Pope Benedict.)

[SmurfBlueSnuggie]

So it was the September Six. That was my first thought, but I'd been under the impression that it was for a wider variety of reasons than the feminist movement. Also, I disagree with the Times for calling that "not that long ago." Thanks Portia!

[SmurfBlueSnuggie]

Follow-up question. I know Gilaedi and Quinn were professors at BYU. I'm pretty sure I remember hearing all of the six were. Am I correct?

[Portia]

Follow-up question. I know Gilaedi and Quinn were professors at BYU. I'm pretty sure I remember hearing all of the six were. Am I correct?

No, not as far as I can tell. There was a writer and a lawyer in there.

[Whistler]

I read an article in Sunstone written by one of the Sept. Six and she recounted how she taught in a fireside that Heavenly Mother and the Holy Ghost are the same person. I still kind of wonder why exactly they were excommunicated, and heresy seems like a really unusual reason to be excommunicated.

[vorpal blade]

Of the so-called September Six I only knew well Paul Toscano. We worked closely together in our mission office while we were missionaries. I knew him after our mission as we took a class or two together at BYU. He was definitely not a feminist. I think his wife later had a great deal of influence over him, and it wasn't for his good. He became a lawyer in Salt Lake City, not a BYU professor, although I believe that was his ambition when I knew him.

Having beliefs contrary to the accepted doctrines of the church is never the reason for excommunication, although it is the convenient explanation to give to friends and the press after your excommunication. They know that the church will not reveal the true reasons for the excommunication.

[Katya]

I read an article in Sunstone written by one of the Sept. Six and she recounted how she taught in a fireside that Heavenly Mother and the Holy Ghost are the same person. I still kind of wonder why exactly they were excommunicated, and heresy seems like a really unusual reason to be excommunicated.

An unusual reason for Mormons, specifically? (I think it's a pretty common reason, over the general course of Christianity.)

[Whistler]

I read an article in Sunstone written by one of the Sept. Six and she recounted how she taught in a fireside that Heavenly Mother and the Holy Ghost are the same person. I still kind of wonder why exactly they were excommunicated, and heresy seems like a really unusual reason to be excommunicated.

An unusual reason for Mormons, specifically? (I think it's a pretty common reason, over the general course of Christianity.)

yes, for Mormons. I know plenty of people who have weird not-technically-doctrine beliefs but they don't seem to get called out on it (not that I want that to start). It seems like most people get excommunicated for breaking a law or something, although I admittedly have very little real data on the subject.

[Katya]

I read an article in Sunstone written by one of the Sept. Six and she recounted how she taught in a fireside that Heavenly Mother and the Holy Ghost are the same person. I still kind of wonder why exactly they were excommunicated, and heresy seems like a really unusual reason to be excommunicated.

An unusual reason for Mormons, specifically? (I think it's a pretty common reason, over the general course of Christianity.)

yes, for Mormons. I know plenty of people who have weird not-technically-doctrine beliefs but they don't seem to get called out on it (not that I want that to start). It seems like most people get excommunicated for breaking a law or something, although I admittedly have very little real data on the subject.

I think there's a big difference in scope between people who have private weird pseudo-doctrinal beliefs and people who use a public form to preach beliefs that not only aren't orthodox doctrine, but are considered highly dangerous or harmful to the Church. Which is not to say that I'm happy with how the September Six were treated, but in the case of Janice Allred, I understand the difference in degree. (Denver Snuffer is another, much more recent example of someone being exed for heresy.)

[Portia]

I enjoyed this research article on 11- to 14-year-olds' perception of sex.

[Emiliana]

I enjoyed this research article on 11- to 14-year-olds' perception of sex.

Thanks for sharing this. Although my state mandates abstinence only sex ed, I occasionally slip in comments about the importance of condoms. I'm realizing that it's not enough, though -- they know that condoms exist, but they don't know about proper usage, limitations, what to do if they fail, etc. And they sure don't have good enough reading comprehension to get all of that from the package inserts.

[Portia]

I enjoyed this research article on 11- to 14-year-olds' perception of sex.

Thanks for sharing this. Although my state mandates abstinence only sex ed, I occasionally slip in comments about the importance of condoms. I'm realizing that it's not enough, though -- they know that condoms exist, but they don't know about proper usage, limitations, what to do if they fail, etc. And they sure don't have good enough reading comprehension to get all of that from the package inserts.

Yeah, Utah makes getting emergency contraception difficult.

I don't know who will give my thirteen year old sister the talk, and when. Not her private school ...

[Emiliana]

I enjoyed this research article on 11- to 14-year-olds' perception of sex.

Thanks for sharing this. Although my state mandates abstinence only sex ed, I occasionally slip in comments about the importance of condoms. I'm realizing that it's not enough, though -- they know that condoms exist, but they don't know about proper usage, limitations, what to do if they fail, etc. And they sure don't have good enough reading comprehension to get all of that from the package inserts.

Yeah, Utah makes getting emergency contraception difficult.

I don't know who will give my thirteen year old sister the talk, and when. Not her private school ...

Ugh, people WILL insist on conflating emergency contraception with the abortion pill. It's not abortion. Emergency contraception stops ovulation, just exactly the same way that birth control pills do. There is no evidence that it can even stop implantation of a fertilized egg, much less cause a fertilized egg to detach from the placenta (which is what the actual abortion pill does).

Does your sister need to learn the basics? Or just more details about safety and decision making and such? I remember getting a lot of good information from some book called "So You're a Girl" or something cheesy like that, but I can't find it right now.

[Portia]

Phonesthemes for all! Just realized that Mormon starts with this ... Does it sound "sinister" to people outside the community? Hmmm ...

This reminds me of how Romanians think Mooooooldova is the most depressing-sounding word.

[Portia]

The Romanian word for "death" is moarte, but I'd forgotten that their word for "bad" sounds nothing like the French word (mauvais) -- it's rău.

[mic0]

I watched Mobsters and Mormons with a bunch of not-even-religious friends last night. It was pretty fun.

[Digit]

Interesting.

British neuroscientists Brian Butterworth and Joey Tang point to the case of Alan, who has English parents but was raised in Japan. Alan is severely dyslexic in English but has no problems reading Japanese.

[Yarjka]

I watched Mobsters and Mormons with a bunch of not-even-religious friends last night. It was pretty fun.

I saw that one on the big screen!