Humor will not be tolerated!! -Portia

ahem. wrote:

Foreman wrote:As for your other point: the Boardcast is indeed an answer.

Dude, you can say that, but it doesn't make it true. It's your opinion. And that is perfectly fine. I hold a different opinion.

It seems I missed the meeting where ahem. was declared Official Protector and Executor of the Board Canon.

It's on the site, so it's official. Someone skipping an answer doesn't make it not an answer. Someone not listening to an answer doesn't make it not an answer. If we answered a question, that makes it an answer.

That was somewhat of a harsh reaction, Foreman, especially since (to me) it seemed like ahem. was trying to make peace. To each his own, however.

Foreman wrote:It seems I missed the meeting where ahem. was declared Official Protector and Executor of the Board Canon.

It was a small, private ceremony. We didn't want to make a big fuss over it, so only close friends and family were invited. (<--- snark)

Gimgimno's suggestion is brilliant and wonderful!! I humbly offer another: the next time one of you readers feels that a writer has overlooked some very important piece of information, please submit your knowledge respectfully in the form of a comment.

Ok, wow. Drama. That was fun. I'm gonna have to agree, though, that the writers are pouncing a bit too defensively on this one. ([shields head] Don't hate me! Let's still be friends! No tomatoes!) Perhaps because Board drama is lacking lately?

Though, to be fair, I still don't really understand the basis behind the drama here. So, promise, I'm not trying to provoke anything here, but ahem., could you please help me out here? This is what I understand you meant. Correct me if I'm wrong here. You felt that Espionage asked for details that Hypatia didn't give. Rather, Hypatia saw, "I need to lose weight" and quickly just wrote up a basic Weight Loss 101 plan so that she could mark the answer complete and move on with life, without actually trying to figure out what Espionage was actually asking for. Yes?

Cuz if that's right, I disagree. I could see how you could think that. And I'll be honest, I've definitely asked some questions that when I got the answer back I was disappointed and thought, "Yeah, good enough answer, but it didn't actually answer my question." And maybe that's what Espionage is thinking, too. But we don't know that. Part of being a writer is trying to read the questioners' minds and figure out what they were really trying to ask. And there have been questions that even the writers answering the question disagree on what the reader was actually asking. It's a perspective thing. I often read questions and get something totally different out of it than what the writer answering the question thought they meant.

Ok, maybe Hypatia did miss the mark. I don't know. You'd have to ask Espionage. But I don't think she did it out of laziness. I don't think she didn't fully read the question. I think she read the question completely, then, based on her experience and thus perspective, answered the question how she thought Espionage needed to hear it. She read (from what I understood from her answer), "Person who is overweight and trying to lose weight and after 2 months hasn't is wanting to know how to lose weight." So she answered with the very basic, time tested answer. Consume less calories than you burn. Because, let's be honest, even if it's Weight Loss 101, it's the basic truth. And if you're dieting for two months and haven't lost any weight, then you're breaking that basic rule.

I've been trying to lose baby weight ever since Dragon Baby was born. Let me tell you, my diet is ridiculously healthier. And I haven't lost any weight in months and months. Despite my diet, I haven't lost any weight. Why? Because I don't exercise. I know that's my problem. I could have easily have asked that question (except I'm not 270 lbs. and I don't think I've killed any weight loss trigger). And had I asked that question, Hypatia's answer is exactly what I would have needed to hear. I probably would have been annoyed because, yes, I already know that. But that doesn't mean I'm living it. To me it sounded like Espionage wanted a magic fix. (Heck, I know I'd love one.) Hypatia knew there wasn't one. So she told her what she thought she needed to hear. (Ack! Pronoun murder!)

On the other hand, you read the question differently. If you had asked the question, you would have been looking for specific tips like cardio vs. stretching. So that's what you were expecting to read in the answer, so you were disappointed. Which is totally understandable! You already know about Weight Loss 101. You want Weight Loss 201. You expected to get WL 201. And then you didn't. And you were like, "Boring! This is just a review! I WANT MORE!" Which is totally fair.

My point is that people's perspectives and knowledge bases are different. Thus, when we read a question we might see something that someone else totally missed. You might interpret it to mean one thing while someone else interprets something completely opposite. (Don't believe me? Look at all the different ways Christians interpret the Bible.) So when Hypatia interpreted it differently than you did, you read it as a cop-out answer where she honestly thought that's what Espionage needed to hear. That doesn't make her a bad writer. That doesn't mean her answer is crap. It simply means she sees the world differently than you do.

I'd suggest in future that if you disagree with an answer because you expected to hear something different, write in another question and say, "I read this answer and felt I already knew that. Could you expound upon that with specific tips and tricks that I should know? What kind of exercises are better for weight loss, for example." Because then the writers can see more specifically what kind of answer you're looking for.

Dragon Lady:

If you want to see why the writers insist this question had a quality answer, you should (as mentioned a bajillion times here) listen to the podcast. It was the subject of long conversation by multiple writers--including Hypatia--with direct experience, who gave very good, thorough advice. Then decide if it was a cop-out or not.

(Hint: it wasn't.)

Hrmm, like many here, I also have a job, and have been unable to get to this until now. At the risk of disturbing a hornets nest, I feel the need as moderator to make a few points.

1. Ahem., your criticisms, whether founded or not, are your personal opinion. I treat it as such; individuals are free to agree or disagree as they may see fit. The attacks on you, and the impugning of character, are out of line, no question.
2. The writers are intensely sensitive to criticism, percieved or actual. This is something I've accepted long ago. We could go on and on about why this is, and I actually have quite a few theories, but the bottom line is that the sensitivity is something that needs to be accounted for. We are often dealing with fragile egos here, and we need to act accordingly.
3. Any writer criticism provokes hive-mind response. Fault one, and you have attacked all. (a side note to the writers: most times you get referenced as "the almighty board" or "omniscient" or what have you, it is sarcastically. There is a very real reader perception of writers as arrogant, and that they look down upon readers. You may not feel this to be the case, but it is a perception held by a large portion of the readers.)
4. I have not read the response in question. Its quality (or lack thereof, as the case may be) is entirely irrelevant to my purposes here. My purpose is to ensure that everyone "plays nice", and that quite frankly hasn't happened. This is mostly a case of Ahem. questioning the validity of response, and being attacked fairly aggressively for her opinion. My response to this is, Ahem., yes, they weren't very nice to you, but criticize the board, this is what happens. (I know you just questioned a few responses to one particular question, and not the board-at-large, but to the writers, this is part-and-parcel.)
5. This is a pet peeve of mine, but one I feel to be of at least partial merit, hence I'll mention it. Do not suggest that faulty or lacking information be bolstered with comments. We all know this doesn't work. Any comment that doesn't pay homage to the board first and foremost, correct information that is easily and readily proven incorrect, is given in the appropriate manner with every i dotted and t crossed, and lastly, pay respect to the board once again, will be rejected. Also, even if comments meet these criteria, sometimes they will reject it just for kicks and giggles.

So go play nice everyone. Don't make me have to make dinner again.

Foreman wrote:Dragon Lady:

If you want to see why the writers insist this question had a quality answer, you should (as mentioned a bajillion times here) listen to the podcast. It was the subject of long conversation by multiple writers--including Hypatia--with direct experience, who gave very good, thorough advice. Then decide if it was a cop-out or not.

(Hint: it wasn't.)

Foreman ~

I didn't say it didn't have a quality answer. In fact, I believe I defended Hypatia (which is what ahem. originally was talking about—not the podcast). And I never said it was a cop-out. Again, I defended the answer. I only said that some of the writers were a bit defensive. In CK's very first response he asked ahem. to "kindly calm down" and even apologized and explained why he answered like he did, "Sorry for the somewhat snarky response, but sometimes I get frustrated when readers criticize us like this, especially when it seems so baseless." I appreciate that. I was a writer. I know how much it hurts to be criticized. Especially when that's the only feedback you get. I know. Been there. But I don't think it's fair to ask the readers to kindly calm down, but then not to heed your own advice. (Y'know, when grouping all writers together so that you are all accountable for what CK says. (Though, that's fair, because often readers all get grouped together in writers' minds, too.))

I listened to my first podcast today. Podcast Number 4. I was pleasantly surprised that everyone sounded like a regular, decent person. And I mean that kindly.

Where do I go to listen to the previous podcasts?

Thanks everyone for all your hard work.

vorpal blade wrote:Where do I go to listen to the previous podcasts?

Click on "Archives" in the sidebar, then click on "Podcasts" which will show up in the sidebar once you click Archives. I think you can manage from that point.

Thanks, Indefinite Integral. I knew I could count on a clever reader to help me out.

Craig Jessop wrote:

Gimgimno wrote:I say that we all take chill pills

After a morning discussion amongst my roommates about the plural of "Book of Mormon," I almost told you that this should be "chills pill." Actually, I think I like that better.

um...wouldn't it be Books of Mormon? Book of Mormons makes y'all sound like a gaggle of geese or something.

ps- since i seem to be easily amused/a missionary hunter, i'd like to derail the real topic for a minute to report i have seen FOUR young mormon men on bikes riding around my city in the last two days. i hope they have enough water, because it's really hot here. also, i know most people think their missions are super awesome, but i just don't see how a mission in my town would be.

ok, you may now return to your regularly scheduled *~dramz~*

mmm. Most 'attacks' I see here are due to some missed understanding.

ahem. were your original remarks directed more toward the written response, or the verbal ones? The the line "The question about losing weight that they discussed in the podcast bugged me a little bit." seems to imply it is the podcast that you take umbrage with, yet later posts seem quite the opposite and I think that its a major part of the tail-chasing here.

One element that I don't think has been addressed yet is the fact that although answers are directed to one, they are by nature written for all. How many times have we seen LJ state something along the lines of "From your question I gather you understand x, but for everyone else, here's a quick run-down..." Regardless of how much the querent knows, general advice on a popular topic (one many may apply to themselves) is a good rule of thumb.

As for the rest, it merely seems that each has focused on different parts of the question to draw their picture of the querent.

"I've been consistently trying for over a month - going on two?" + "It's pretty irritating." + "I'm not an expert on weight loss, but I know a LOT about it because I've tried to stay informed about everything so I don't screw up my body,"

paints a very different picture than

"I lose motivation because the scale sticks to its numbers, or even goes UP... Not to mention I love Oreos." + "all the tricks aren't working." + "I killed my weight-loss trigger (metabolism?)"

If the passages that stuck out to you are more one than the other, you're going to find yourself imagining a much different individual than someone who saw differently.

@Marduk, am I misreading your post, or is your 'moderation' mostly an eloquent recital of "Writers are infantile and there's nothing we can do about it, ignore what they say and don't try to utilize the established system for assistance"? In what way does your post actually make an apparently touchy subject more moderate?

Imogen wrote:um...wouldn't it be Books of Mormon? Book of Mormons makes y'all sound like a gaggle of geese or something.

ps- since i seem to be easily amused/a missionary hunter, i'd like to derail the real topic for a minute to report i have seen FOUR young mormon men on bikes riding around my city in the last two days. i hope they have enough water, because it's really hot here. also, i know most people think their missions are super awesome, but i just don't see how a mission in my town would be.

I've always heard the correct phrase was "copies of the Book of Mormon."

One of my sons served in the McAllen Texas mission. As I recall from what you have said this mission covers the general area where you live. I think he believed his mission was great because of the great people he met there. Who knows, maybe he met you once.

Guess I'm a co-conspirator in your derailing this topic.

(Don't worry guys, I'm totally listening to Conference. They're hymn-ing at the moment.)

Marduk wrote: Ahem... The attacks on you, and the impugning of character, are out of line, no question.

...

This is mostly a case of Ahem. questioning the validity of response, and being attacked fairly aggressively for her opinion. My response to this is, Ahem., yes, they weren't very nice to you, but criticize the board, this is what happens.

I would like say that while the dogpile of people jumping on this thread was a bit surprising to me, I do not feel like my character has been impugned. I PMed a few people about things that were said that I saw as needlessly aggressive. I don't really mind people trying to defend themselves against things I may have said. They always have that right.

vorpal blade wrote:

Imogen wrote:um...wouldn't it be Books of Mormon? Book of Mormons makes y'all sound like a gaggle of geese or something.

ps- since i seem to be easily amused/a missionary hunter, i'd like to derail the real topic for a minute to report i have seen FOUR young mormon men on bikes riding around my city in the last two days. i hope they have enough water, because it's really hot here. also, i know most people think their missions are super awesome, but i just don't see how a mission in my town would be.

I've always heard the correct phrase was "copies of the Book of Mormon."

One of my sons served in the McAllen Texas mission. As I recall from what you have said this mission covers the general area where you live. I think he believed his mission was great because of the great people he met there. Who knows, maybe he met you once.

Guess I'm a co-conspirator in your derailing this topic.

look at us, conspiring together.

your son was about an hour and half south of me, though i was born in that area. i was raised and live in corpus christi.

k, aaaaaan dramz....go!

Imogen wrote: look at us, conspiring together.

your son was about an hour and half south of me, though i was born in that area. i was raised and live in corpus christi.

k, aaaaaan dramz....go!

Sounds sort of sinful, doesn't it?

If I am not mistaken Corpus Christi was a part of the McAllen Texas mission, but I don't think he ever served in that city. I could be wrong on either or both counts.

This is sort of embarrassing, guys, but as a recently retired writer and now reader, I'm not really sure if I'm supposed to be overreacting in a defensive or offensive way. Does anyone know the etiquette in this situation?

Humble Master wrote:This is sort of embarrassing, guys, but as a recently retired writer and now reader, I'm not really sure if I'm supposed to be overreacting in a defensive or offensive way. Does anyone know the etiquette in this situation?

yes

vorpal blade wrote:

Imogen wrote: look at us, conspiring together.

your son was about an hour and half south of me, though i was born in that area. i was raised and live in corpus christi.

k, aaaaaan dramz....go!

Sounds sort of sinful, doesn't it?

If I am not mistaken Corpus Christi was a part of the McAllen Texas mission, but I don't think he ever served in that city. I could be wrong on either or both counts.

depends. it might have been before we had our own church. but now we have our own. and i am the missionary hunter.