Humor will not be tolerated!! -Portia

Unit of Energy wrote:my favorite word in French is pomme de terre, it means potato, although the direct translation is apple of the earth. I am rather fond of using it as an insult.

Chauve Souris is good as well. It literally means "shaved rat" but is the French word for Bat.

Man, I wish I had gotten in on this question. There are SO MANY awesome Arabic words I should have added!

Dr. Smeed wrote:

Unit of Energy wrote:my favorite word in French is pomme de terre, it means potato, although the direct translation is apple of the earth. I am rather fond of using it as an insult.

Chauve Souris is good as well. It literally means "shaved rat" . . .

Close. It means "bald mouse." "Shaved rat" would be "rat rasé."

Awwww man, I'm going to have words with Mme. Bogaard. STRONG WORDS.

Dr. Smeed wrote:Awwww man, I'm going to have words with Mme. Bogaard. STRONG WORDS.

Either way, I think it's pretty clear why Batman originated in an English-speaking country. "Bald Mouse-Man" just doesn't have the same ring . . .

Katya wrote:

Dr. Smeed wrote:Awwww man, I'm going to have words with Mme. Bogaard. STRONG WORDS.

Either way, I think it's pretty clear why Batman originated in an English-speaking country. "Bald Mouse-Man" just doesn't have the same ring . . .

Isn't that Mighty Mouse?

Dragon Lady wrote:

Katya wrote:

Dr. Smeed wrote:Awwww man, I'm going to have words with Mme. Bogaard. STRONG WORDS.

Either way, I think it's pretty clear why Batman originated in an English-speaking country. "Bald Mouse-Man" just doesn't have the same ring . . .

Isn't that Mighty Mouse?

That sounds more like German--"Flying Mouse-Man" (Fledermausman).

I really like the Russian word "blin" (bleen?) which means pancake and can also be used as "darn"

Whistler, I think I'm going to add that to my ideolect.

Another good Swahili word is "mzungu," which generally means "foreigner" -- typically someone of European descent, but sometimes Indians or other Asians. Its literal translation, depending on who you ask, means either "wanderer" or "person who goes around in circles."

Emiliana wrote:Another good Swahili word is "mzungu," which generally means "foreigner" -- typically someone of European descent, but sometimes Indians or other Asians. Its literal translation, depending on who you ask, means either "wanderer" or "person who goes around in circles."

I love learning about the words that different cultures have for themselves and for foreigners. Often, the literal meaning for one's own culture is something like "the people" (e.g. "Diné" in Navajo) and the words for foreigners can be pretty blunt. (E.g., in English, something that's "foreign" doesn't belong. The French use the word "étranger" to mean both "foreigner" and "stranger," so a foreigner is someone who's strange.)

My favorite pair comes from the Slavic languages. The word "Slavic" shares a root with the Russian word "слово" ("slova"), meaning "word." The Russian word for "Germans," on the other hand, is "Немцы" ("nyemtsy"), which shares a root with "немота" ("nemota"), meaning "mute." So, the Slavs are the ones who have words, while the Germans are mute (or they might as well be mute, since they don't speak our language).

Katya wrote:

Emiliana wrote:Another good Swahili word is "mzungu," which generally means "foreigner" -- typically someone of European descent, but sometimes Indians or other Asians. Its literal translation, depending on who you ask, means either "wanderer" or "person who goes around in circles."

I love learning about the words that different cultures have for themselves and for foreigners. Often, the literal meaning for one's own culture is something like "the people" (e.g. "Diné" in Navajo) and the words for foreigners can be pretty blunt. (E.g., in English, something that's "foreign" doesn't belong. The French use the word "étranger" to mean both "foreigner" and "stranger," so a foreigner is someone who's strange.)

My favorite pair comes from the Slavic languages. The word "Slavic" shares a root with the Russian word "слово" ("slova"), meaning "word." The Russian word for "Germans," on the other hand, is "Немцы" ("nyemtsy"), which shares a root with "немота" ("nemota"), meaning "mute." So, the Slavs are the ones who have words, while the Germans are mute (or they might as well be mute, since they don't speak our language).

The name "Bantu" is given to a large family of African languages/cultures and literally means "people." Interestingly, though, the name was given to them by European linguists because so many of the languages have that word in common. So it's not used by native speakers as a self-designation at all, even though the word itself would seem to follow the same pattern as what you mentioned Russian and Navajo do. (I feel like that paragraph is extraordinarily confusing. But hopefully you can make some sense out of it.)

Hmm, I should look into what words local languages use to describe people outside their own tribal group. Swahili (at least as it's spoken here) is a trade language rather than a tribal language--extraordinarily few people speak it as their native tongue and it doesn't really contribute to a sense of identity and community to the extent that a lot of other languages do. So the word "mzungu," though disparaging, doesn't quite have the us/them dichotomy that other languages might. I'll ask around and report back.

Emiliana wrote:The name "Bantu" is given to a large family of African languages/cultures and literally means "people." Interestingly, though, the name was given to them by European linguists because so many of the languages have that word in common. So it's not used by native speakers as a self-designation at all, even though the word itself would seem to follow the same pattern as what you mentioned Russian and Navajo do. (I feel like that paragraph is extraordinarily confusing. But hopefully you can make some sense out of it.)

No, I get what you're saying. Very interesting! And it makes me wonder what the literal meaning is of the names of all of the language families in the world. (But I would need to speak all the languages to find that out . . .)

Emiliana wrote:Hmm, I should look into what words local languages use to describe people outside their own tribal group. Swahili (at least as it's spoken here) is a trade language rather than a tribal language--extraordinarily few people speak it as their native tongue and it doesn't really contribute to a sense of identity and community to the extent that a lot of other languages do. So the word "mzungu," though disparaging, doesn't quite have the us/them dichotomy that other languages might. I'll ask around and report back.

I anxiously await your results!

Katya wrote:(But I would need to speak all the languages to find that out . . .)

Better get cracking!

Heh. One of my friends who ended up staying in Nairobi found a black t-shirt that had the word "mzungu" written across the front at Nakumatt, the equivalent of Wal-mart in Nairobi. She would wear it going down the city streets and get the bizarrest looks from everyone walking past.

My host family decided to give me a Kikuyu name (their tribal language), so I was dubbed "Nyambura," which they told me means rain. It's kind of fun to say.

My tribal name, Akyen, means rain too! Much better than being named "famine" like one of my other mzungu friends is. (It's customary to give tribal names that describe something about the time you were born -- so if you're born during famine, or near the death of a family member, or some other disaster, you might wind up with a really awful name.)

I've also seen shirts that say, "My Name's Not Mzungu!" I kind of want one. Seriously, it's not like I live in the village -- white people are a pretty common sight. And yet small children and/or creepy young men can't seem to stop themselves from yelling "mzungu" at me. But usually I turn around and yell back, "Mwafrika!" ("African person!"), and that puts an end to it.

Emiliana wrote:But usually I turn around and yell back, "Mwafrika!" ("African person!"), and that puts an end to it.

Funny, you'd probably get sued in the states for that....

:Þ

I rather enjoy wordplay, and finding it in foreign languages is an extra bonus. The Carmina Burana's poem O Fortuna has this gem:

Sors salutis
et virtutis
michi nunc contraria,
est affectus
et defectus
semper in angaria.

The poem thus far is a study in opposites and similars (egestatem/potestatem, obumbrata/velata etc.) and the salutis/virtutis (health/virtue) fits that bill. Then you're hit with the affectus/defectus pairing. Are they opposites or similars? Defectus' English congnate is deficient, and was often used when health or virtue is lacking. Affectus though, is harder to pin down. Literally it is antonymic to defectus (ad- + facere as opposed to de- + facere). Its meaning of "to act upon" gives rise to the English uses of the word 'affect' as both verb and noun (to influence, to put on as a façade, and one's display of emotion). Yet when used with health and virtue, it can be very similar to defectus, as the affectus of your health were the symptoms of the diseases you carried, and the affect of virtue has no power.

fun!

Also in the German song "Deine Welt" the line:

sie gehört nicht dir, doch sie ist deine Welt lit. "she is not yours, but she is your world"

gotta love contradictions that arent!




Straightforward words seem paradoxical. (LXXVIII, 12)

-Tao

Emiliana wrote:And yet small children and/or creepy young men can't seem to stop themselves from yelling "mzungu" at me. But usually I turn around and yell back, "Mwafrika!" ("African person!"), and that puts an end to it.

We did that all the time in China! People (mostly kids and old men ) would say "Waiguoren" (foreigner) and we would say back "Zhongguoren." Or we would ask if they were from America. Great times.

My general response to young kids calling me mzungu was to reply "Eko wappi mzungu?" I probably slaughtered the spelling, but it means "where's the mzungu?" I got a lot of blank stares from kids and a lot of laughs from their parents.

HA. I've also been known to turn to a (Ugandan) friend walking with me and say something like, "Hey, those kids think you're a mzungu!"

I haven't forgotten my promise to find out about tribal words for foreigners, but I've been sick for most of the last three weeks...