Humor will not be tolerated!! -Portia

I think it is also worth noting that a solid foundation in Latin and Greek will lend itself to greater depth in learning

SMP wrote:Basic math (up to calculus)
physics
chemistry
life sciences
[M]any language[s] ... spoken as a first language by a large number of people
Literature
Economics
political science
theology
history of civilization
...

Also I'd put in my two cents for philosophy as a field that I would place towards the top of any such list I would make. And as soon as you begin to study the realm of western thought, you are inevitably bound to end up working with Romano-Grecian foundations.

Tao wrote:I think it is also worth noting that a solid foundation in Latin and Greek will lend itself to greater depth in learning

SMP wrote:Basic math (up to calculus)
physics
chemistry
life sciences
[M]any language[s] ... spoken as a first language by a large number of people
Literature
Economics
political science
theology
history of civilization
...

Also I'd put in my two cents for philosophy as a field that I would place towards the top of any such list I would make. And as soon as you begin to study the realm of western thought, you are inevitably bound to end up working with Romano-Grecian foundations.

I have to apologize. I thought that I had included philosophy in that list. I should mention, however, that I did not write intend for that list to be a ranking of the importance of studying various subjects, nor did I mean for it to be all-inclusive. It was just a quick sample off the top of my head of subjects that I thought were more important and valuable than studying Latin.

And I agree that studying Latin/Greek can lend itself to these other studies, but how much will it really help? And would time spent studying Latin not be better spent directly studying these other subjects?

I just want to reiterate that I don't think studying Latin is without benefit, nor do I think those who studied Latin made a mistake in doing so. Really, my main point is that if we are talking about what we think would be good for everyone to study, there are a lot of other subjects that are more important than Latin.

In other words, if I had a child and they wanted guidance on what language to study in high school, I would not recommend they do Latin, but rather a language that is still spoken today. If they already knew a foreign language, and wanted to learn another, I would still not recommend Latin. If however, my child were very interested in classics, literature, and such, then I would be more inclined to recommend that they study Latin.

But just like I don't need to know Greek or Hebrew or reformed Egyptian to read and get stuff out of the scriptures, one doesn't need to know Latin to benefit from reading classic literature or studying classical civilization. Sure, knowing Hebrew can enhance one's scripture-reading experience, and knowing Latin can enhance the study of the classics (among other things). But they are not essential, and really only those who are really interested in that subject would learn them.

SMP wrote:But just like I don't need to know Greek or Hebrew or reformed Egyptian to read and get stuff out of the scriptures, one doesn't need to know Latin to benefit from reading classic literature or studying classical civilization. Sure, knowing Hebrew can enhance one's scripture-reading experience, and knowing Latin can enhance the study of the classics (among other things). But they are not essential, and really only those who are really interested in that subject would learn them.

Part of me doesn't like you right now. But that part of me also acknowledges that my Hebrew fluency has swiftly been draining away from me, so I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't like you for that statement. You have been spared.

well, okay.

Dragon Lady wrote:

SMP wrote:But just like I don't need to know Greek or Hebrew or reformed Egyptian to read and get stuff out of the scriptures, one doesn't need to know Latin to benefit from reading classic literature or studying classical civilization. Sure, knowing Hebrew can enhance one's scripture-reading experience, and knowing Latin can enhance the study of the classics (among other things). But they are not essential, and really only those who are really interested in that subject would learn them.

Part of me doesn't like you right now. But that part of me also acknowledges that my Hebrew fluency has swiftly been draining away from me, so I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't like you for that statement. You have been spared.

I'm sorry that part of you doesn't like me. I really didn't mean for anything I said to be offensive. (That's not always the case. I do enjoy offending people from time to time, but no this time.)

Anyway, I can honestly say that this discussion has opened my eyes a little bit. I had always assumed that most people felt the same way I did about it, but seeing everyone's comments has made me realize that perhaps there is more value in it than I thought.

Maybe I'll go and learn a little Latin now. I'll probably just stick to the cool phrases, like "ipso facto", and "ab aeterno".

SMP wrote:Anyway, I can honestly say that this discussion has opened my eyes a little bit. I had always assumed that most people felt the same way I did about it, but seeing everyone's comments has made me realize that perhaps there is more value in it than I thought.

Well, if you're the type of person who majors in something quasi-useless like French literature, you do often end up needing to justify it to people.

SMP wrote:...

and toward the bottom of the list:

Latin/Ancient Greek
Klingon
Quenya

I'm not saying that studying Latin/Greek is not beneficial or enjoyable and inspiring. I just don't really see a specific benefit or any reason to require anyone to study them, even in an ideal world.

FWIW, this is what provoked the response from me. Putting Latin and Greek next to Klingon at the very bottom of the list is just absurd. So, as long as you've decided to move them up a bit on your proposed list, that's fine by me. Not everyone needs to study Latin and Greek (I don't), but it should be understood that there is a lot of value to be had by the study of it, even if you (or I) have decided to expend our energy on other pursuits.

Sometimes you never know when interest in a subject you consider unrelated to your main goals will help. In Gifted Hands: The Ben Carson Story, Dr. Carson was interviewing for the job of Director of Pediatric Neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins Hospital and the thing that really warmed up the interviewer to him was when the conversation came upon classical music, which the interviewer really liked, and which Dr. Carson happened to have taken an interest in years earlier.

Digit wrote:Sometimes you never know when interest in a subject you consider unrelated to your main goals will help.

This is true (and it's something I'd like to explore), but the fact that an obscure interest or skill may turn out to be useful later on is not the same thing as saying that a particular interest or skill is likely to be generally useful for a large segment of the population.

Put another way, I recently got some part-time work based in no small part on my one semester of undergraduate Welsh, but if I had to advise undergraduate students as to the most useful language to study (all things being equal), I wouldn't put Welsh at the top of the list.

Don't worry, SMP, I'm not really actually offended. I sometimes forget that my flat humor doesn't come across well in written form.

Yarjka wrote: Putting Latin and Greek next to Klingon at the very bottom of the list is just absurd.

I was intentionally being absurd. Obviously learning Latin has more benefit than learning Klingon. However, some of the reasons that a person might choose to learn Latin could also be applied to learning Klingon. For example, when I was in middle school, I wanted to learn Latin. Not enough to actually do it though. And why? Pretty much because I thought it would be cool. But learning Klingon or Quenya would be pretty cool, too.

I guess I shouldn't have assumed that everyone who decided to learn Latin had the same reasoning that I did as an 8th grader.