Re: Mother-in-law rant
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:23 pm
Sorry, Wisteria. You've got me confused here. Did you just call me... ignorant and judgmental?
Your Questions...Your Answers
https://www.theboardboard.org/
This put up a little red flag for me, because my husband and I just recently had a conversation that sounded a lot like this. The "to have more or not to have more" cloud has been hanging over my head, too, and with it a lot of anxiety and internal conflict. And I told him that I wasn't sure if what I was feeling was the Spirit telling me that something was wrong or if it was anxiety. Because I've been seeing a counselor for some anxiety and depression issues for the past few months, and it feels like it's messed with my spiritual sensor. He had to remind me that God doesn't speak in anxiety. He speaks in peace and clarity. The Spirit can let you know when something is wrong, and that can be an uncomfortable feeling, but it's not the same as anxiety. Maybe that's what you meant rather than "anxious," I don't know. But I know that I have a habit of punishing myself (with anxiety and negative thoughts) at the slightest provocation, the slightest hint that I might be doing something "wrong" in somebody's eyes. Have you ever experienced depression, or considered it now?TheAnswerIs42 wrote:we are having another child because every time I thought about chucking the baby storage stuff I got really anxious about it, and only finally relaxed when I told my husband I was willing to try again.
This also makes me wonder if chemicals are a factor. Like I said, I think depression messes with my spiritual senses. And I've had struggles in the last year (lining up with the tail end of my last pregnancy and the post-partum period, so when my hormones and chemicals were bouncing all around) that I've never had before. I've woken up to find my testimony a shred of what it once was. And I keep working at it, and I still have struggles and it's still not perfect, but it really scared me how fragile it could get. But looking back, all of these times have coincided with some serious emotional issues. My promptings were never clear, nor were my thoughts. And then when things cleared up for a time, spiritual matters improved as well. I think they're deeply connected.TheAnswerIs42 wrote:If I had a testimony right now, I guess I would call that a prompting.
Having a lot of kids is cultural. It is not doctrinal. Real life is not Saturday's Warrior, and there is not a line of spirits waiting in heaven to be plucked and put in bodies, and nobody's going to get left behind if you only have two, or three. That's predestination, it's fate, and we don't believe in that. We believe in a God who lets us choose. Maybe in a few instances it's important for a particular family to have one more child or whatever, but I'd say that's as common as having just one person that you're "supposed" to marry. We hear and read talks about the importance of having families, and I talked to my mom the other day about that. She said that those talks are for the people who need them, the people who aren't doing those things. But all of us who really are trying to do our best hear that stern tone of voice and then kill ourselves trying to fulfill commandments we're already doing well on. And you are! You've done your part! You married in the temple and had children! I think God is pleased with your offering.TheAnswerIs42 wrote:But when I believe that God is behind that decision, it makes me angry enough to not want to pray about it or anything else. I prayed about it before, and no matter how I fasted about it I never got the actual desire for a kid. The fact that I am expected to do this with no desire is rather infuriating.
So, that might be a bigger core problem, to be honest. I'm not really going to pray for guidance in this instance because I don't want to be told that having a kid is the right thing to do. It will only make me more upset at the church, so I am trying to just ignore it for now, so I don't lose what shred of a testimony I have over it.
They're not. Your mother-in-law seems to be acting out of selfishness disguised as love. God acts out of love. Imagine this from his perspective. Say one of your children was tearing themselves apart, distancing themselves from you, and getting depressed over oh, I don't know, maybe an extra-curricular activity that they wanted to put on their college application. After they'd already been accepted to the college. Wouldn't you say that it's okay to drop the extra-curricular? That it's okay to keep going if they found joy in it, but it's okay to stop if they genuinely didn't?TheAnswerIs42 wrote:Maybe I am mad at God and my Mother-in-law, since I feel like they are on the same team on this issue.
krebscout wrote: And if you are already pregnant...congratulations? I know you'll give the kid all the love and nurturing they need, because you're already a good mom.
This is true, but I do think that I am taking the right path here. I don't think I explained the feeling properly. I remember one conversation with my mother in January where I told her we were done. I talked through all my very logical reasoning, and she backed me up 100%, and yet I kept explaining all my reasoning over and over because I was trying to talk myself into it. And when I hung up, I cried, because I knew I just couldn't do it. I'm not sure how to describe that feeling, but I just knew that no matter how much I talked about it, or how much it made logical sense, this wasn't the path for my family. I have not been able to bring myself to toss out one baby item over the years because I just . . . couldn't. I had talked myself into that if Heavenly Father doesn't change my heart overnight, then it wasn't going to happen. But no matter how much I said that, there was just this nagging feeling.krebscout wrote: He had to remind me that God doesn't speak in anxiety. He speaks in peace and clarity.
I could really relate to that. I had a really strong testimony when I was in college, but it has taken a big hit over the last couple of years. Figuring out that my son has learning disabilities, that the delays weren't just going to go away on their own, trying to learn to fight for what he needs and not just hope the system will do what they can, etc, really took a toll on me. A year ago January I had a late period, and I had massive panic attacks because of it. But a year later - once my son got a fabulous teacher and we had passed the mourning period (because there is a stage where you have to mourn that you might have to take care of this child the rest of his life, and he will never be like other kids) I had another late period right before that phone call with my mom and some part of my gut felt dissapointed.krebscout wrote: I've woken up to find my testimony a shred of what it once was. And I keep working at it, and I still have struggles and it's still not perfect, but it really scared me how fragile it could get. But looking back, all of these times have coincided with some serious emotional issues.
Isn't is amazing how many people believe that? Actually, mostly my in-laws. My favorite is the "since we are LDS, we should rescue as many children as we can so they can be born in the covenant." Because being LDS automatically makes you a better parent than anyone else, even if you have 6 kids under 8 and got so depressed/overwhelmed/post partum you couldn't take care of your own kids for months at a time. That is a quote from my sister-in-law, by the way. I still can't believe they had a seventh after that episode.krebscout wrote: nobody's going to get left behind if you only have two, or three.
This is my favorite quote. My husband and I once talked about how she didn't like being social, so she grew her own friends. It just didn't occur to her that they would eventually have thier own lives.krebscout wrote: They're not. Your mother-in-law seems to be acting out of selfishness disguised as love.
Yes. But one thing I have to remember is that I am not the only person in my family. So even if I don't actively want another child, maybe it is what our family needs. I know that we are very grateful now that current kids are so close in age because once we found out my son needed help, he already had a peer model at home to help him along. I'm sure there is another reason behind this. If nothing else, we want to make sure that in case we are taking care of my son the rest of his life - we hope that he will be able to blend into a normal job, etc, but we don't know - we don't want all the burden to be on my daughter someday to take care of aging parents and her brother at once. I have a sister-in-law (one of mine, not husbands) who is an only child, and watching her cope with things when both of her parents were in nursing homes on the other side of the country has been awful.krebscout wrote: God acts out of love. . . it's okay to keep going if they found joy in it, but it's okay to stop if they genuinely didn't
I knew an LDS counselor who framed this situation along these lines: If the Spirit is sending you a bad feeling (a stupor of thought, etc.), he'll also give you an idea of what to DO about it to feel better. Depression and anxiety disorders make you feel sad or damned or anxious without any recourse. If the Spirit was giving you those feelings (or withdrawing so you felt those feelings), you'd also have an idea of what to do or change to feel better, because that's the point of that kind of spiritual prompting.krebscout wrote:This put up a little red flag for me, because my husband and I just recently had a conversation that sounded a lot like this. The "to have more or not to have more" cloud has been hanging over my head, too, and with it a lot of anxiety and internal conflict. And I told him that I wasn't sure if what I was feeling was the Spirit telling me that something was wrong or if it was anxiety. Because I've been seeing a counselor for some anxiety and depression issues for the past few months, and it feels like it's messed with my spiritual sensor. He had to remind me that God doesn't speak in anxiety. He speaks in peace and clarity. The Spirit can let you know when something is wrong, and that can be an uncomfortable feeling, but it's not the same as anxiety. Maybe that's what you meant rather than "anxious," I don't know. But I know that I have a habit of punishing myself (with anxiety and negative thoughts) at the slightest provocation, the slightest hint that I might be doing something "wrong" in somebody's eyes.
Oh, right. Yes, in the middle of all this advice-giving—congrats!krebscout wrote:Well congratulations again! With an exclamation point this time.
I would just like to thank you for saying this. It's something I've been thinking about in my own struggles and relationships right now.God doesn't speak in anxiety. He speaks in peace and clarity. The Spirit can let you know when something is wrong, and that can be an uncomfortable feeling, but it's not the same as anxiety.