Humor will not be tolerated!! -Portia

being close friends and letting people really in is something that typically takes me years to do. I have two friends that I opened up to within a month or two, but most of the four or five friends I consider close I knew for a year or so before opening up.

Judging from everything I've ever read on here, I'd say I'm a lot girlier than the average boardboard babe. I actually like makeup and clothes and chick flicks. I also like talking about those things. That being said, I still find it easier and more enjoyable to make friends with guys. Since I'm studying Mechanical Engineering, most of my classmates are men. I have found that it takes a lot less effort to befriend men, but that my friend-relationships with them are often more transient. We can easily go from seeing each other only in class/at church to hanging out every day (sometimes alone, sometimes with others) to seeing each other only in class/at church in a single month.

Admittedly, our level of friendship usually changes because of differing levels of like-ness. Coward that I am, I typically choose to distance myself rather than deal with our differing feelings, at least when I’m the one who wants to keep things platonic, which I usually am.

With my female friends, this friendship roller coaster doesn’t happen often. Our relationship progresses a lot more gradually. Like others have said, it takes me longer to open up to girls. Once we’ve gotten to best friend stage, we remain that way unless something drastic happens.

(Side note: Why do my guy friends refuse to understand that being friends is good enough, at least at this point in our lives? I don’t want to get married and I don’t want to date you exclusively. We are not soul mates. But we are compatible on a friendship basis. I know it’s selfish of me to demand that our relationship to be how I want it to be (friends that can still hang out pretty much all the time), but that’s still what I want, dangit!)

Sparklebreeze wrote:I know it’s selfish of me to demand that our relationship to be how I want it to be (friends that can still hang out pretty much all the time)

No more selfish than their desire for a romantic relationship.

yayfulness wrote:No more selfish than their desire for a romantic relationship.

Ugh. That's what I tell myself, too. But then I realize that we can't both win. I guess we both have to lose. At least that's what generally happens.

I was going to have the heartless economist in me say something about how that's just an unfortunate step along the way to the most efficient solution. But really, sometimes it just sucks.

Another side note: if a guy I'm interested in has no other male friends, I see that as a yellow flag. I'm not saying I won't date him or give him a chance, but I will think about and try to determine why all his friends are girls. Is he a ladies' man? Is he feminine? Does he do things that other guys find annoying? Why can't he connect with members of his own sex? I'm also less likely to pursue a guy with exclusively female friends, if only because it seems like he already has a lot of options and will be harder to win over. Maybe (probably) this is stupid.

Without knowing you personally, Sparklebreeze, it seems to me like your standoffish nature in connecting with people leads to males trying to rescue you from this, and then they feel successful and intimate with you once they are let in, which leads to feelings of attraction. But I could be way off, like I say.

For me (although Fred seems to only want female opinions ) I have lots of male friends, but I usually call them "buddies." They are the friends that I play basketball with, or play computer games with, etc. My female friends tend to be more intimate; I share my feelings with them, they share theirs with me, I can count on them, I can cry in front of them, and so on. It simply isn't acceptable for males to be vulnerable and open in front of other males. In fact, it is only slightly more acceptable to be vulnerable in front of women, unless it is in a romantic relationship. Hence the problem.

Well, like I said, females are more interesting. ;D

I think that that is a good point though. A guy crying in front of another guy seems to not only be an uncomfortable, but also unacceptable. I think that it might have a lot to do with why I have a hard time becoming friends with guys. (Yes, I have friends that are guys, just not very many. And most of them are out of state right now.) I feel like I can be more myself around girls and have to put up a "masculine" front with other guys.

Fredjikrang wrote:I feel like I can be more myself around girls and have to put up a "masculine" front with other guys.

My brother has always had more female friends than male ones, I think for similar reasons. He grew up in a family with two intelligent women (me and my mom) and a dad whose personality is pretty similar to Mr. Rogers, so he didn't grow up with any of the stereotypical competitive macho male dynamics, and he doesn't have a lot of patience with guys who do embody those stereotypes, so he tends to go off and look for interesting girls to talk to, instead.

Okay, so I'm reading Dracula and just came across a quote that I think applies exactly to this discussion!

I suppose that there is something in woman's nature that makes a man free to break down before her and express his feelings on the tender or emotional side without feeling it derogatory to his manhood -Dracula, Chapter 17, Mina Harker's Journal.

Written by an Irishman in 1897. So, this is not anything new. Which makes me wonder if it of a more european origin than otherwise.

I had a good mix of girl and guy friends, though I found liked having guy friends more. Probably in part because I was a flirt. And probably in part because there is so much less drama with guys than girls. And in general I was just more comfortable with guys. I had guy friends from almost every walk of life. But girls? Most of my girl friends were roommates. So it was kind of a "friends because we have to be". And the ones I stayed friends with were friends because we clicked. But I don't know that we would have clicked outside of living together.

Now that I'm married, it's definitely the opposite. I still have some guy friends, but only guy friends that I had before I got married. Ones that Yellow is friends with, too. And even with them, I don't really talk to them much. Not because I think Yellow would be jealous (he wouldn't) nor because I think it improper to talk to a guy friend on chat (if it got out of hand, sure. But just talking about life? I would never type anything that I wouldn't mind Yellow reading). It's just… we have less to talk about now. Laser Jock, for example (hope you don't mind me singling you out, LJ!). He and I used to chat all the time. I got married and it became less. Probably in part because I had less time and in part because now I didn't need LJ to be my dating sounding board. But I was still LJ's sounding board. But then he got into a serious relationship with out any drama that he needed advice on (hi, Eirene!) and suddenly we found ourselves going weeks, if not months, between talking. And that's still how it is. Now we chat when he has Harry Potter questions or I want to talk about a Brandon Sanderson book or I have a cooking question that he usually can't answer but I always think he should be able to. And periodically other things. But it's much more sparse. And that's ok. Turns out, a lot of my guy friends and I had relationships based on giving each other relationship advice. Who knew?

Now I'm becoming friends with a lot of young mothers. I think largely because they understand me. I can talk about poop and sleep and tantrums and they can commiserate and tell me their stories and we can all laugh and cry together. We give each other advice. I know they won't judge me when I complain about motherhood. (I have one single friend who does judge me on that and always points out that there are lots of women all over the world that wish they were in my shoes. Thanks. I get that. I don't want to give back my kids. I don't regret having them. I'm just really tired of not getting more than 2 straight hours of sleep and potty training, thanks.) My young mom friends also provide my kids opportunities for play dates and going to fun things like the zoo or Thanksgiving Point or even the park where I can have adult company while still having fun with my kids.

So… I guess my friendships are largely based on who I can empathize with (and vice versa) and who can advise me best in my current situation.

I agree. In my ward full of young mothers, I'm finding it hard to identify with anyone.

Ooh, I also agree. Several of my guy friends and I really mostly just give each other relationship advice. Of course, I've got several female friends who are relationship sounding boards, too. Honestly, I think it's one of the easiest bonding points. Most single people are interested in relationships on some level, and many married people love to give advice or just hear their friends' stories.

And many of my female friends ARE old/current roommates. One of the good things about being in Provo so long is I've got lots of good roomfriends. One of the bad parts is that the vast majority of them have gotten married and moved away. Most of the women-friends are people that are in similar walks of life. A handful of my classmates, a few of the people in my ward, people with interests in Bollywood or gardening or Wodehouse or rock climbing or food, etc.

Whistler wrote:I agree. In my ward full of young mothers, I'm finding it hard to identify with anyone.

I have a hard time identifying with anyone in my current or last ward, too, young moms or not. I'm always slow to make friends, and it's my own doing, but...I like having a mix, when I can find them.

Whistler wrote:I agree. In my ward full of young mothers, I'm finding it hard to identify with anyone.

Are you in a married student ward? Or does your ward just happen to be full of young mothers?

Dragon Lady wrote:Laser Jock, for example (hope you don't mind me singling you out, LJ!).

Not at all. And I think you're right about the reasons for not chatting as much.

Katya wrote:

Whistler wrote:I agree. In my ward full of young mothers, I'm finding it hard to identify with anyone.

Are you in a married student ward? Or does your ward just happen to be full of young mothers?

I'm in a married ward. I live in kind of a house/townhouse and most of my neighbors are really old or having their second or third child. It's probably a great place to raise children, I just don't have any. I actually went to book group with a bunch of the older ladies for a while, but I keep forgetting how much of a generation gap there is, and how some people actually like cheesy, badly-written novels.

Whistler wrote:

Katya wrote:

Whistler wrote:I agree. In my ward full of young mothers, I'm finding it hard to identify with anyone.

Are you in a married student ward? Or does your ward just happen to be full of young mothers?

I'm in a married ward. I live in kind of a house/townhouse and most of my neighbors are really old or having their second or third child. It's probably a great place to raise children, I just don't have any. I actually went to book group with a bunch of the older ladies for a while, but I keep forgetting how much of a generation gap there is, and how some people actually like cheesy, badly-written novels.

That's a really tough situation. Even if you did have interests in common with the younger women (and statistically, there are probably a few of them who do like the same things you like), the fact that they have young children is probably going to keep them relatively housebound, which limits your opportunities for group socialization.