Humor will not be tolerated!! -Portia

Technically, everyone saying that working moms work harder is complimenting my mom.

TheAnswerIs42 wrote:Anyone else feeling like this is some sort of competition where everyone loses? We've got two camps here insulting each other's mothers, no matter how kind they are trying to be about it. I'm starting to feel like we're saying that the most busy person wins the right to declare everyone else slackers. I don't see any resolution in anyone's future.

Each family has to do what they feel best for their family. The end.

Was I making it sound like a competition? Just trying to level out the two.

This whole conversation can be summed up in one of two sentences:
"My mom is better than your mom!" or
"I am a better mom than you are!"

Seriously, I don't see why we need to judge one or the other as superior or inferior, more or less challenging, or more or less awesome. They're different situations with different contexts. Plus even in the two broad categories that we've painted, not every situation is going to be the same. No two families/mothers are going to have the same experience and all have to make their own choices on how they make their lives.

I just want to say that I think that all good mothers are amazing (including mine). They all deserve mountains of credit and heaps of praise, regardless of their SAHM/WM/MOM/SAUCY (that last one stands for Super Awesome Ultimate Child-raising Yeo-woman)

Ramoplot wrote:Seriously, I don't see why we need to judge one or the other as superior or inferior, more or less challenging, or more or less awesome. They're different situations with different contexts. Plus even in the two broad categories that we've painted, not every situation is going to be the same. No two families/mothers are going to have the same experience and all have to make their own choices on how they make their lives.

This is an important lesson to learn. I think it's also worth mentioning that this same conflict often arises in the marriage itself. Some husbands comes home and think to themselves, "She's got it so easy. I have to work all day!" and the wife is thinking, "He's got it so easy. I have to listen to these whiny kids all day!"

We should try to appreciate each other's efforts, rather than trying to out-work each other. A marriage with a superiority complex isn't a healthy marriage. It should be cooperative, not a competition.

But what kind of thread is it if there isn't a large amount of heated debate?

Seriously, though, I really think this goes back to the OPs question. A lot of people really don't think SAHMs do anything all day. Which is simply untrue. And that's all we've been trying to say. We don't have an easy job of it. We're not saying that working moms have it easy. (When I said that in my answer, I was totally tongue in cheek.) We're simply trying to show that we do, in fact, have a full-time job as well. That's all.

I think you're oversimplifying the thread. On the surface it may look like a tug-of-war, but it's more nuanced than that. My one comment seemed to be "on the side" of stay-at-homes, but I am a working mother and so was my own mother. My one comment was meant to defend against one false statement: "Working moms have it twice as hard because they do twice as much."

And if nitpickingly correcting other people on this forum isn't what we do, then my name isn't krebscout.

krebscout wrote:And if nitpickingly correcting other people on this forum isn't what we do, then my name isn't krebscout.

To be fair, I still think of you as Waldorf.

Dragon Lady wrote:A lot of people really don't think SAHMs do anything all day.

And that's the underlying problem. All of this, "She works harder!!" "NO...she works harder" stuff is just a frivolous argument based on that idea, and I think it's just as ridiculous as comparing majors. They are all necessary to one degree or another, so why bother arguing about which one is best? I don't care if you had to take 35 calculus classes -- you are NOT better than anybody else.

i wasn't trying to say my mom was better than other people's (even though i think she is, but i'm biased) i just disagreed with the statements about how working mom couldn't do all the things at home that SAHM moms do. i've never known a SAHM, but all my friends and i were well taken care of an grew up in clean and happy homes.

Imogen wrote:i wasn't trying to say my mom was better than other people's (even though i think she is, but i'm biased) i just disagreed with the statements about how working mom couldn't do all the things at home that SAHM moms do. i've never known a SAHM, but all my friends and i were well taken care of an grew up in clean and happy homes.

And that's the point (or one of the points) I'm trying to make, too. Your mom didn't do everything that a SAHM mom does. Because during the hours that she was working, she was not taking care of you. She was doing her job. (At least before you went to school.) That doesn't make her a bad mom nor am I trying to imply such a thing. My mom was a working mom, too. I'm just trying to point out that while both a SAHM mom and a working mom can keep their houses clean and food on the table, and love and nurture their children to be wonderful people, it doesn't mean that a working mom does all the mothering tasks that a SAHM does. Instead she trades the hours of 9-5 [stereotype] to do her non-mom job instead of making lunch and running around the playground [simplified].

I'm not saying one is better, but I am saying that a working mom does not do all the things that SAHM's do, because they don't have the need. They hire daycare for that. For that matter, a SAHM doesn't do all of the things a working mom does because she chooses to spend her time reading books and having tickle-fests instead of digitizing family history books and keeping a digital book project thriving. (Which is what I used to do full time.) It's not that one does more than the other. It's that each have a different focus during work hours.

Dragon Lady wrote:It's not that one does more than the other. It's that each have a different focus during work hours.

I completely agree.

Dragon Lady wrote:I'm just trying to point out that while both a SAHM mom and a working mom can keep their houses clean and food on the table, and love and nurture their children to be wonderful people, it doesn't mean that a working mom does all the mothering tasks that a SAHM does.

I get what you're trying to say. I really do. And I probably agree with you. But you've just said that a working mom does less mothering than a SAHM mom, which is highly charged statement because it implies (etymologically) that she's less of a mother. Would you object to substituting "care giving tasks" for "mothering tasks"?

And, incidentally, what kind of work did (or does) your mother do, DL?

Katya wrote:

Dragon Lady wrote:I'm just trying to point out that while both a SAHM mom and a working mom can keep their houses clean and food on the table, and love and nurture their children to be wonderful people, it doesn't mean that a working mom does all the mothering tasks that a SAHM does.

I get what you're trying to say. I really do. And I probably agree with you. But you've just said that a working mom does less mothering than a SAHM mom, which is highly charged statement because it implies (etymologically) that she's less of a mother. Would you object to substituting "care giving tasks" for "mothering tasks"?

Yes, yes, I would. That's totally fair. I wasn't intending it to be highly charged. I meant to say that SAHMs spend more hours in the day "mothering" or "care giving" than working moms. That does not mean that a working mom is less of a mother. At all. (Did I just dig myself deeper? I didn't mean to.)

Katya wrote:And, incidentally, what kind of work did (or does) your mother do, DL?

She was a secretary. Y'know, one of those low-level jobs that don't require any skill.

She also sold Tupperware for much of my childhood. Probably until I was 10 or so.

Dragon Lady wrote:Yes, yes, I would. That's totally fair. I wasn't intending it to be highly charged.

No, I didn't think so. (I don't think that anyone on this thread has intended any such thing.)

The difficulty with discussing this type of issue is that one person's argument can be unexpectedly amplified if it touches on what is a sensitive topic for another person. (It's worth examining why some issues are such potential powder kegs, because it speaks to a high degree of underlying tension surrounding the topic.)

Dragon Lady wrote:

Katya wrote:And, incidentally, what kind of work did (or does) your mother do, DL?

She was a secretary. Y'know, one of those low-level jobs that don't require any skill.

Ha!

Dragon Lady wrote:

Waldorf and Sauron wrote:Dragon Lady:

What would be your idea of the worst job ever?

Oh goodness. Tough question. Cleaning out out houses? Anything that's just gross. Or anything that requires heavy physical labor. Or anything dealing with poetry-esque traits. (I reserve the right to add to this list as I think of other things.)

Laser Jock reminds me that I would also not want to be a professional mover. (Though, I'd argue that falls under physical labor.) I hate packing. Hate it. Yick. (Guess what I'm doing tonight.)

Are you guys moving? Where are you going?

TheAnswerIs42 wrote:Are you guys moving? Where are you going?

Oh, goodness, no. I mean, I'd love to move to a real house with land and space, but that's not gonna happen until we grow out of this one, or until May 2012, whichever comes first. Which will probably be 2012.

No, we're just going to Oregon for a week to visit my sister. Which requires (much less) packing. Which I hate.