Random Maids a'Milking!

[Marduk]

I'll try to explain a bit, and TBC can tell me if I'm way off base. (yeah, TBC, that's what I'm going to call her. Haven't thought of anything better. I would call her cheesy, but I'm not sure that's appropriate or apt.) I'm going to go ahead and say it, most things that are popular are crap. TV shows, movies, books, you name it, if most of the people around you go nuts over it, chances are it is crap.

At worst, you read a mediocre book that's been over-hyped.

Wrong. At worst, you read an awful piece of formulaic tripe. Also, the more something is hyped, the more it raises your expectations. Often, something isn't good based on its inherent quality, it is good or bad based on how it compared with your expectations. If you expected it to be amazing, and it was just good, you'll be dissapointed. If you expected it to be mediocre, and it ends up being good, then you are pleasantly surprised. The fear is often that the hype will raise your expectations to the point where they cannot be met, and hence you are dissapointed with the final product. Therefore, you would be afraid to read/watch it for fear of having your hopes dashed.

[ahem.]

I'm going to go ahead and say it, most things that are popular are crap. TV shows, movies, books, you name it, if most of the people around you go nuts over it, chances are it is crap.

Nothing that has mass market appeal can have value? I don't believe that. I like you, Marduk, but I've said it before, and I'll say it again... you are kind of a snob. You seem to think that the majority of the population exist at some lower level of intelligence and that the higher echelons of academia are the only ones able to grasp true greatness.

Often, something isn't good based on its inherent quality, it is good or bad based on how it compared with your expectations.

I think you have a valid point here, but I think the goal is to be able to take the hype with a grain of salt. Understand that people are attracted to suspense and angst just as much as they are to sincere expressions of emotion and poignant social commentary. And all have their place. If one set of criteria isn't exactly your cup of tea, then be aware and keep you expectations low unless those that you respect and who share your literary/media tastes recommend them.

[Marduk]

Nothing that has mass market appeal can have value? I don't believe that.

Nah, that's not what I said. I said most. The point I'm trying to make is appeal =/= quality.

[TheAnswerIs42]

I'm with thebigcheese quite often. I still have yet to watch Princess Bride all the way through, I think. I just got so annoyed with how obsessed everyone was, quoting lines all the time. So I just wanted to prove that I wasn't like that, I guess. I think I care less about that the older I get, but I also didn't want to go to BYU because everyone else in my ward was going there.

Anyway, I'm glad I read Harry Potter. And Dan Brown novels, those are fun. I really tried to like Twilight for my friend, who was obsessed. But I hate Jane Eyre books for their romantic drivel plots, so I don't see how I could have actually liked Twilight. I'm sure I'll read Hunger Games sometime. You know, when they are actually possible to borrow.

[ahem.]

Nah, that's not what I said. I said most. The point I'm trying to make is appeal =/= quality.

It's true. Sometimes we are attracted to things that are not good for us. But I still say it's worth the risk to go out and discover for ourselves rather than second guessing the motivations and opinions of everyone else.

[Tao]

Funny, as I don't believe I'd heard of Hunger Games or it's subsequent novels until today, and I've seen multiple mentions of Mockingjay today.

I don't get this. Why should someone else's reaction be allowed to interfere with your relationship with a book? I mean, if the book genuinely doesn't have any appeal for you, I guess don't read it. But if you're not reading it purely because other people have gone a bit crazy over it... I don't get it. At worst, you read a mediocre book that's been over-hyped. At best, you find a wonderful story that you can enjoy. I've read hundreds of mediocre books, so that doesn't seem so bad. Really, where is the downside?

I'm afraid I'm with Marduk and thebigcheese on this, in part because no book has a huge appeal to me in and of themselves. Others' opinions play a significant role in selecting what works take priority for me. I may have mentioned this before, but I was in middle school when the Harry Potter craze hit. While my initial impression was they were a bit young for me, I had nothing against them and may well have picked them up had I a trusted recommendation. As it turned out, I saw a news broadcast concerning the books ("kids are reading again!"), with an interview of a high school sophomore (junior?) proudly stating how he had read the whole thing and there wasn't even any pictures! Wow. What a shining endorsement. I'll not deny that elitism isn't a factor. I'd burned through my first selections of the school library in earlier years, so my just-for-fun reading list that year had included David Copperfield, Anna Karenina, the Once and Future King, and the first 20 pages of Wuthering Heights. So to be shown someone years my senior crowing over how he'd completed a whole chapter book that I'd assumed was targeting fifth-graders? Good for him, but I'd not take his recommendation as very applicable to myself.

Also, I'd wonder if sociality doesn't play its part in the decision. I am not a fanatic. At times, I envy those who can be. At others, less so. Not having any practice in the field, I attribute potentially erroneous traits to it. I can recall seeing images of individuals in tears of joy over a presidential election. This baffled me. A president has little-to-no power when dealing with a split congress, so whatever miraculous changes you are imagining have little more substance than those of a madman. Getting all atwitter over a book/tv series/movie/band/whatever seems even more baffling. (Really? You're in tears because this character broke up with that one? You do realize they are fictional, right? I dont get that worked up over breakups that are real.) Because I don't understand the underlying drive that motivates such fanaticism, I recognize that I have very little of the common ground to converse with those caught up in the tide. (You should see some of the conversations between Dragon Lady and myself over Harry Potter, it's like she was trying to explain the beauty of interpretive dance to a blind/mute. I just didn't get it.) If I don't have that common ground with other fans, then a significant part of the reason for the hype is gone.

[C is for]

Since I'm a full day behind I have to scroll way back to get to what I want to comment on:

Not to mention I'd be something like 47th in line for it at the library. And I have a $33 fine.

We were 11th in line. If we'd put it on hold yesterday we'd have been like 600th in line. So your "47th in line" is amazingly impressive to me.

And now, since this is the Random thread, a statement:

Someone I know, I saw yesterday. I don't think she knows me, though. She mistook me for my sister's mom. At least writer anonymity goes one way!

[Laser Jock]

But I hate Jane Eyre books for their romantic drivel plots, so I don't see how I could have actually liked Twilight.

Did you mean Jane Austen books? There's only one Jane Eyre, and it's actually much higher quality than Jane Austen, in my opinion (and there's definitely much less "romantic drivel" ).

Also, the discussion of not liking something because it's super-popular reminded me of this question; I think my answer there sums up why I often dislike things that are very popular.

[TheAnswerIs42]

Um, yes, yes I did. I don't think I have tried to read Jane Eyre, but I did try a couple of Jane Austens and never got past the first chapter or two. About the closest I can get in that genre is Tess Of D'Urbervilles, which I did love.

Tao might be onto something with the elitism concept, sadly. I think sometimes we see the crazy nutcase fans and want to be better than that somehow. Or at least I do. This might sound odd coming from someone that admitted to writing Harry Potter Fanfiction, but I have actually never had the exprerience of being a fanatic about any one thing before either. In fact, there are a lot of things I don't like about HP. It is just . . . something do to. Perhaps I need a pride check on how I look at people who start crying when their favorite ____ does ____, but . . . yeah, I think they need a reality check.

[bobtheenchantedone]

I like Jane Austen, myself (and I didn't like Jane Eyre). I am muchly mocked for my good opinion, but I like the stories and I love the little bits of clever, humorous writing.

[Marduk]

I like Jane Austen, myself (and I didn't like Jane Eyre). I am muchly mocked for my good opinion, but I like the stories and I love the little bits of clever, humorous writing.

Sorry, there is no clever or humorous writing to be found in the works of Jane Austen.

[bobtheenchantedone]

I like Jane Austen, myself (and I didn't like Jane Eyre). I am muchly mocked for my good opinion, but I like the stories and I love the little bits of clever, humorous writing.

Sorry, there is no clever or humorous writing to be found in the works of Jane Austen.

Last I heard, dear boy, you hadn't read any Jane Austen. How can you judge?

[Craig Jessop]

Good news moment everybody... I found a job! And it pays very well, too!

[ahem.]

About the closest I can get in that genre is Tess Of D'Urbervilles, which I did love.

Really? Really? Sooo depressing. I think it tries so hard to be terribly realistic that it comes off being seriously contrived.

Good news moment everybody... I found a job! And it pays very well, too!

Awesome! So, so exciting for you!

[Unit of Energy]

I didn't break my ankle in my adventure last week. Just tore an awful lot of blood vessels. And thanks to my mom's insistence that I see a doctor, I now have an ankle brace that will not cut off the circulation in my foot.

[thebigcheese]

Oh wow. I have some catching up to do...

I don't get this. Why should someone else's reaction be allowed to interfere with your relationship with a book? I mean, if the book genuinely doesn't have any appeal for you, I guess don't read it. But if you're not reading it purely because other people have gone a bit crazy over it... I don't get it. At worst, you read a mediocre book that's been over-hyped. At best, you find a wonderful story that you can enjoy. I've read hundreds of mediocre books, so that doesn't seem so bad. Really, where is the downside?

It has less to do with the book itself and more to do with the obsession factor. I don't know, obsessions just turn me off for some reason. There was one semester where I watched each of my five roommates, one by one, get obsessed with Twilight and spend every waking hour reading it. They stopped doing their homework, they stopped going out with their friends, they stopped all normal activity and just read. That's what turns me off. I don't want to be one of those people because, in my eyes, they are wasting their time. It puts a bad taste in my mouth. I think Tao hit the nail right on the head:

Also, I'd wonder if sociality doesn't play its part in the decision. I am not a fanatic. At times, I envy those who can be. At others, less so. Not having any practice in the field, I attribute potentially erroneous traits to it. I can recall seeing images of individuals in tears of joy over a presidential election. This baffled me. A president has little-to-no power when dealing with a split congress, so whatever miraculous changes you are imagining have little more substance than those of a madman. Getting all atwitter over a book/tv series/movie/band/whatever seems even more baffling. (Really? You're in tears because this character broke up with that one? You do realize they are fictional, right? I dont get that worked up over breakups that are real.) Because I don't understand the underlying drive that motivates such fanaticism, I recognize that I have very little of the common ground to converse with those caught up in the tide. (You should see some of the conversations between Dragon Lady and myself over Harry Potter, it's like she was trying to explain the beauty of interpretive dance to a blind/mute. I just didn't get it.) If I don't have that common ground with other fans, then a significant part of the reason for the hype is gone.

Let's just say that fantasy is not exactly my genre of choice. So when I see people going crazy over it, I don't understand that drive at all.

I'm going to go ahead and say it, most things that are popular are crap. TV shows, movies, books, you name it, if most of the people around you go nuts over it, chances are it is crap.

An unpopular opinion, no doubt. But I would agree that many blockbusters aren't worth watching, many bestsellers aren't worth reading, and many TV shows aren't worth my time. To fully understand this, you might need to understand my personality a little bit. My reading is generally very practical because I crave information, not stories. When I read for fun, it's usually something from the non-fiction section. Lately, me and my husband have been loving The Tipping Point (it's SO interesting!). In my spare time, I read about how to fix my latest bike problem or how to buy good cookware. I live for that stuff! I couldn't care less about some stupid character in some stupid relationship who's also screwing around with some other stupid guy on the side. Doesn't appeal to me in the least.

yeah, TBC, that's what I'm going to call her. Haven't thought of anything better. I would call her cheesy, but I'm not sure that's appropriate or apt.

You can call me any of those things. Cheesy was actually my nickname in high school for several years, so I don't mind that at all.

[ahem.]

yeah, TBC, that's what I'm going to call her. Haven't thought of anything better. I would call her cheesy, but I'm not sure that's appropriate or apt.

You can call me any of those things. Cheesy was actually my nickname in high school for several years, so I don't mind that at all.

How about Flamin' Cheddar? (I'm pretty sure that would only be hilarious to about three other people in the world, but trust me. It is hilarious.)

[thebigcheese]

Haha, sure. If it makes you laugh, you can call me that.

[Craig Jessop]

My roommates -- whom I don't know -- are moving in right now and I'm just sort of sitting here awkwardly.

Also, I settled on a new pseudonym for the Board. Don't worry, I'll still be Craig Jessop to you lot.

[bobtheenchantedone]

YOU GUYS. I just defeated Satan!!