Humor will not be tolerated!! -Portia

I would suggest vulgarity, when used to insult someone, is being used in its vulgar context.

I would also suggest that words used alternately to refer to any genitalia, other than the anatomically correct way, if they are considered vulgar in any context, that meaning will ALWAYS overshadow any other.

This is only tangentially relevant, but there's a song we sing at my church here the chorus of which says, "Jesus is a winner, Satan is a loser." Except, Ugandans don't say the short /i/ sound very well, so they wind up singing . . . "Jesus is a wiener." It's not in the least offensive or vulgar, of course, but the small handful of Americans always wind up shifting uncomfortably and/or trying not to giggle whenever we sing that song.

Emiliana, that reminds me of a bishop I had once who had a pretty strong accent, and there was always a bit of giggling when he thanked the pianist at the end of the meeting.

Aye. While esoteric, I struggled when a roommate who served a Castilian mission, would pray to "Nuestro Padre Thelestial".

On topic: How are we to know the intent of a term? Sure we can draw connections from surrounding diction, but all of that is similarly subject to interpretation. Each person can choose to read their own meaning into anything (see also Politics, Religion and Internet Arguments). I'd say this is especially so with swearwords, as they tend to accrue multiple meanings and get used in all sorts of parts of speech.

Laser Jock wrote:

Katya wrote:

Laser Jock wrote:(The two examples I know of were in quotes, which I personally don't like, but apparently is acceptable.)

What would you have preferred?

I'd have preferred not quoting profanity either; I don't see how "But they said it first!" makes it acceptable.

What about quoting profanity to discuss it as a linguistic phenomenon? (I.e., not quoting a specific person.)

Let me throw something else out there...does anyone here consider the word "prick" to be vulgar? I know it's not a nice thing to call someone, but I never considered it to be vulgar until one of my roommates acted really shocked that I would dare say that word!

thebigcheese wrote:Let me throw something else out there...does anyone here consider the word "prick" to be vulgar? I know it's not a nice thing to call someone, but I never considered it to be vulgar until one of my roommates acted really shocked that I would dare say that word!

I think I used it the other day and my mom was also totally shocked. She said that any anatomical slang is really, horribly rude. Luckily I was in the car with the rest of my family so they all got to find out never to use that word. Unless they're talking about needles. (I don't even remember when that came up. I can't imagine why I'd call someone that...)

C is for wrote:She said that any anatomical slang is really, horribly rude.

Does she equally object to "dork"?

Katya wrote:

C is for wrote:She said that any anatomical slang is really, horribly rude.

Does she equally object to "dork"?

I'm not sure of "equally" but I know she does object to it, for the same reason.

C is for wrote:

Katya wrote:

C is for wrote:She said that any anatomical slang is really, horribly rude.

Does she equally object to "dork"?

I'm not sure of "equally" but I know she does object to it, for the same reason.

Huh. Well, way to be consistent, mom!

For the record, I wrote that when I was spending a lot of time with a British co-worker who used the term frequently, not in its anatomical sense. In the "idiot" sense. I pick up other people's figures of speech all too easily and the other meaning never occurred to me. Oops!

This whole conversation reminds me of a certain Board party where we spent a good hour in the pool discussing the etymology and applicability of "bastard".

Merry Christmas to all!

habiba wrote:For the record, I wrote that when I was spending a lot of time with a British co-worker who used the term frequently, not in its anatomical sense. In the "idiot" sense. I pick up other people's figures of speech all too easily and the other meaning never occurred to me. Oops!

This whole conversation reminds me of a certain Board party where we spent a good hour in the pool discussing the etymology and applicability of "bastard".

Merry Christmas to all!

Ahhh, thems good times. Wish my memory was better...

C is for wrote:She said that any anatomical slang is really, horribly rude.

Heh, get her a Patrick McManus Book for Christmas, one of his characters is marked by his use of anatomical insults, you silly elbow.

So, I might get into trouble for this, but it is quite germaine to this discussion, so let's hope I don't....

We here in the U.S. don't really use that term as slang for genitalia. However, we do use the word "pussy" (ducks head to avoid getting in trouble) and that word can also be used to insult someone as cowardly or timid. However, because we are more familiar with its more vulgar usage, most are offended by its use in any context. The two words are actually very, very similar.

I would suggest that "pussy" would NEVER have gotten through. Further evidence to the suggestion that words have purely the connotation we give them.

C is for wrote:She said that any anatomical slang is really, horribly rude.

Well, she's not necessarily wrong about it being rude, the only trouble is that any noun referring to something long and pointy or something round, when said in a particular tone of voice, can turn into a slang term for a part of the male anatomy.

Marduk wrote: We here in the U.S. don't really use that term as slang for genitalia. However, we do use the word "pussy" (ducks head to avoid getting in trouble) and that word can also be used to insult someone as cowardly or timid. However, because we are more familiar with its more vulgar usage, most are offended by its use in any context. The two words are actually very, very similar.

I think everyone on here should watch the "Not a Pussy" episode of Arrested Development for a fantastic case study on cultural differences in linguistic perception.

Emiliana wrote:This is only tangentially relevant, but there's a song we sing at my church here the chorus of which says, "Jesus is a winner, Satan is a loser." Except, Ugandans don't say the short /i/ sound very well, so they wind up singing . . . "Jesus is a wiener." It's not in the least offensive or vulgar, of course, but the small handful of Americans always wind up shifting uncomfortably and/or trying not to giggle whenever we sing that song.

"We Sing All Hail to Jesus' Name" turns into "We Sing All Hell to Jesus' Name" when sung with a heavy Utah accent. Also difficult not to giggle over.

thebigcheese wrote:...does anyone here consider the word "prick" to be vulgar? I know it's not a nice thing to call someone, but I never considered it to be vulgar until one of my roommates acted really shocked that I would dare say that word!

Um, yeah, I would definitely find that word offensive if I were one to be offended by swearing.

wired wrote:I think everyone on here should watch the "Not a Pussy" episode of Arrested Development for a fantastic case study on cultural differences in linguistic perception.

Instantly thought of this as well. They bleep out all the anatomical uses of that word, but leave the other instances intact. And they use it a lot in that episode.

Katya wrote:

Laser Jock wrote:I'd have preferred not quoting profanity either; I don't see how "But they said it first!" makes it acceptable.

What about quoting profanity to discuss it as a linguistic phenomenon? (I.e., not quoting a specific person.)

Exceptions for that sort of reason make sense to me. Though I still doubt it would be appropriate/accepted on the Board currently.

habiba wrote:For the record, I wrote that when I was spending a lot of time with a British co-worker who used the term frequently, not in its anatomical sense. In the "idiot" sense. I pick up other people's figures of speech all too easily and the other meaning never occurred to me. Oops!

This whole conversation reminds me of a certain Board party where we spent a good hour in the pool discussing the etymology and applicability of "bastard".

See, everyone? I told you it wasn't necessarily an inappropriate word! (And that she wasn't using it that way, despite your accusations to the contrary.) This reminds me: I honestly do not consider "bastard" a swear word, at all. A rude/offensive name to call someone? Sure. Swearing? Not a bit. It means someone of illegitimate parentage, so it's certainly offensive, but being offensive does not make something a swear word. It was a total revelation to me at that party that some people did consider it a swear (and I think I surprised a few people by having no qualms saying it, given my feelings about swearing). I've tried to be a little more careful (not that I really had a reason to say it much anyway), but it still seems odd to me that it's taboo, because I never got that impression growing up (not that my family said it either).

Also, just curious for those of you who insist that any word that anyone might consider a swear is a problem: do you worry about saying you have a bloody nose because it might offend someone who's British? Do you think my grandfather is a horribly inappropriate person for going by the nickname "Dick" (rather than "Richard")? Is it putting dirty thoughts in people's minds if you say you went to donate blood and they pricked your finger? Or is it maybe more about the intent, and less about the specific word?

Context is important. Those who know me know that I do not swear. I avoid being around it more than most people, too (see my conversation with Katya above). But even I feel like it's silly to get up in arms over a synonym for "idiot" just because it can also be used in a vulgar sense (but wasn't).

Laser Jock wrote:Context is important. Those who know me know that I do not swear. I avoid being around it more than most people, too (see my conversation with Katya above). But even I feel like it's silly to get up in arms over a synonym for "idiot" just because it can also be used in a vulgar sense (but wasn't).

I think you would be hard pressed to show that anyone here was "up in arms" about her usage of the word; I assumed before (and it has since been confirmed) that her intent was innocent. It wasn't personally offensive, but I still contend that it is a word with primarily offensive usage, especially in an American context. I don't deny there are words with innocuous meanings (as you supplied), but the dictionaries I've consulted list the vulgar use as primary (and as a majority of possible meanings) in this case. I think the main definition of the word carries most weight, and in this case, that's not a very nice word.

To other people, that is. I only very rarely care about the cussin'.

Edit: PS- those words with alternate meanings usually have a clear contextual basis to interpret the meaning (you demonstrated these uses clearly). In this case, where both are insults, it's hard to argue which one was meant. Thus, problems.

I'd like for someone to give me an example of a word that is vulgar, being used in a non-vulgar context, as an insult. (Other than, obviously, the one we're talking about.)

Marduk wrote:I'd like for someone to give me an example of a word that is vulgar, being used in a non-vulgar context, as an insult. (Other than, obviously, the one we're talking about.)

I will think about that and hopefully come up with an example. That's an exciting challenge.