Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:16 pm
is it alright to have "dirty" thoughts about your spouse once you are married?
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It freaking better be!bismark wrote:is it alright to have "dirty" thoughts about your spouse once you are married?
Apology accepted, Captain Needa.Nanti-SARRMM wrote:You know what, you're right. Vorpal Blade was only stating werf's beliefs, trying to add something of genuine value, that pertains to the topic and I responded immaturely. Whether it was sarcastic, dumb, both, or something else, it was uncalled for and unneeded. So sorry for inserting dumb comments into these topics, nor should I be celebrating my alacrity for posting such comments.SWKT Parachuter wrote:Sometimes it's hard for me to tell if Nantipoo is trying to be sarcastic or if he's just saying something dumb again. I actually thought he was just saying something dumb that time, especially because vorpal had made a legit point about treating people as individuals rather than as members of a gender.
Sorry Vorpal for my response.
So, you're a jewish black chick? Awesome! As your people would say, mazel tov!Imogen wrote:oy. thanks cog for stating what i apparently was not getting across. i don't think we should tell CHILDREN all about sex. oy vey! but people our age have no reason for being ignorant about their bodies.
I am in favor of education in general, and I oppose the sin of ignorance. But I disagree with your view of human nature. Giving people information doesn't make them better or worse. I really don't believe that a person with all the facts will necessarily make good choices. Knowing the consequences rarely makes any difference in what people do, or the dumb choices they make. That is because most people make decisions based on emotion rather than on thinking. That's my opinion based on long observation of people, and my understanding of the scriptures.Imogen wrote: tao, i agree with your (long, but very interesting) post. a lot of parents do pass off their responsibilities on whoever will take them. but that's why i think schools should focus on giving kids good factual information, and not morality. maybe this is naive, but i really believe a person with all the facts will make good choices. information is power, and knowing the consequences can stop people from making dumb choices. to me, having sex isn't dumb or wrong. but doing it in a way that may put you or others at risk is.
Gosh!vorpal blade wrote: I do indeed think it would be naive and irresponsible to give people the power to do very destructive things when you know that they are not morally prepared to make good decisions.
Actually, I did have an analogy here about atomic weapons, but I deleted it, knowing Bismark would give me a hard time about it.orb360 wrote:Gosh!vorpal blade wrote: I do indeed think it would be naive and irresponsible to give people the power to do very destructive things when you know that they are not morally prepared to make good decisions.
Someone needs to learn how to stop worrying and love the bomb!
I didn't know men had a mating season . . . ^_-Tao wrote:. . . teach the boys to go ahead and rut as they may.
Agreed. I honestly don't see how any talks saying sexual feelings are "bad" are justified from a gospel perspective. I think we should, rather, emphasize the necessity of waiting for an appropriate time because it is so good.Tao wrote:I feel that if you are going to remain celibate until marriage, then your reasons for it should be positive: (morals, physical/psychological health etc.) not fear.
Orbsy wrote:. . . not enabling them to make bad decisions . . . Some people choose to protect from unsafe sex by ignorance.
This is one of the more baffling statements on here. Even if you homeschool your kids, they will need to learn to interact with and respect people from different or no religious traditions. If you send your kids to public or secular private school, then guess what? It's not going to be General Conference every day. Why does it have to be an impasse? Isn't it reasonable to think that people might have different interpretations of what constitutes moral behavior, while still having a moral compass? It doesn't seem to me that Imogen is saying "go out and have sex anytime, anywhere, at whatever age." On the contrary, I think she is saying that people should be emotionally ready and mature enough to handle such relations before they go into them, and that being properly informed actually helps you, not hinders you. Can't you "apply that to your situation," with the understanding that you think marriage is an essential portion of this prerequisite maturity?Orbsy wrote:You don't have to be. That just means we are at an impass[e] since your opinion does not apply to the situations I'm talking about. And my opinion doesn't apply to the situations you refer to.Imogen wrote:i'm not mormon
I think it makes a huge difference! If you don't know what behaviors could lead to pregnancy, diseases, withholding a temple recommend, how the heck are you supposed to not do them? I'm glad that my parents didn't lie to me about how babies are made or whatever, because I would have felt confused and betrayed. Knowing that sex can lead to unwanted pregnancy is actually a pretty huge deterrent for me, and if I had just chosen to plug my ears and sing "la la la," it seems like that is a recipe for compromising situations--I have a hard time believing determined ignorance helps anyone make good choices.Jabberwocky Combatant wrote:Knowing the consequences rarely makes any difference in what people do, or the dumb choices they make.
Personally, I don't see why schools should need to, or why that is a good thing. It should be from one's own religious or ethical belief system that one draws the conclusion that premarital sex is the wrong way to go, not because the State tells you. I don't see what's wrong with the way of Imogen's school at all: that abstinence is the only 100% effective form of birth control, and that it is the safest route for teenagers health-wise, not that God says you should be abstinent. What if, for instance, a school taught that there is an absolute standard of when it is right to have sex . . . and it's not what you agree with? That seems to be the more insidious problem, in my opinion.Vorpal wrote:I don't want the public schools teaching children that there is no absolute standards of right and wrong regarding sex.
Have you been doing a lot of research, Tao?Tao wrote:Perhaps it is the researcher in me, but it would seem to me if you aren't able to know which of your actions are affecting your significant other, you aren't paying enough attention to them.
I think you will see, if you take my comment in context, that I was not saying anything about withholding information from people. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else. What I was saying is that even when you know the consequences you still act emotionally, and not logically. Your arguments put words in my mouth, as if I was in favor of not teaching what leads to pregnancy, STD, and losing your recommend. I never said that determined ignorance helps someone make good choices. Your comments unjustly put me in a bad light.Portia wrote:I think it makes a huge difference! If you don't know what behaviors could lead to pregnancy, diseases, withholding a temple recommend, how the heck are you supposed to not do them? I'm glad that my parents didn't lie to me about how babies are made or whatever, because I would have felt confused and betrayed. Knowing that sex can lead to unwanted pregnancy is actually a pretty huge deterrent for me, and if I had just chosen to plug my ears and sing "la la la," it seems like that is a recipe for compromising situations--I have a hard time believing determined ignorance helps anyone make good choices.Jabberwocky Combatant wrote:Knowing the consequences rarely makes any difference in what people do, or the dumb choices they make.
Your arguments assume that my statement is equivalent to the statement “I want the public schools to teach that there is an absolute standard of right and wrong in regard to sex.†I didn’t say that, and I didn’t mean that. Go back to what I actually said. Now, do you want the schools teaching a doctrine that is contrary to God’s law? Do you want the schools to teach that there is no absolute standard of right and wrong in regard to sex? If you are going to disagree with me then you need to disagree with <i>me</i>, not some straw man argument you construct.Portia wrote:Personally, I don't see why schools should need to, or why that is a good thing. It should be from one's own religious or ethical belief system that one draws the conclusion that premarital sex is the wrong way to go, not because the State tells you. I don't see what's wrong with the way of Imogen's school at all: that abstinence is the only 100% effective form of birth control, and that it is the safest route for teenagers health-wise, not that God says you should be abstinent. What if, for instance, a school taught that there is an absolute standard of when it is right to have sex . . . and it's not what you agree with? That seems to be the more insidious problem, in my opinion.Vorpal wrote:I don't want the public schools teaching children that there is no absolute standards of right and wrong regarding sex.
Yes... You are not to take vorpal blade's comments out of context. Nor are you authorized to attack werf.vorpal blade wrote:I think you will see, if you take my comment in context, that I was not saying anything about withholding information from people. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else.
Well I guess that means Orb only wants us to take his comments in context then.orb360 wrote: I'm the only one whose comments are allowed to be taken out of context and/or attacked!!!
My thoughts exactly, for two days in a row now. Sheesh.Portia wrote:Wow. Go to work for a day, and the thread explodes.